J. H. Prynne

[luka]

but also as things, you know, nouns.

 

[luka]

a small number of root metaphors at the base of all language. the entire conceptual structure built on top of a few things, movements, directions.

 

[Benny Bunter]

These are the big themes in kitchen poems that are all related, so it's not even just individual words but also groups of related words you have to look at - hope/wish/desire/need/want

 

[luka]

yeah, taking knowledge back to the springs though is i think at least partly about the excavation of root metaphors from Proto-Indo-European etc

 

[Benny Bunter]

As you say, they go off in all directions and it's incredibly hard to keep them all in your head, but definitely worth the struggle

 

[Benny Bunter]

Etymonline - Online Etymology Dictionary

The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words, phrases, and idioms. It is professional enough to satisfy academic standards, but accessible enough to be used by anyone.

www.etymonline.com

This will be very useful, nice one

 

[luka]

View attachment 10486

revenue-avenue

venue (n.)

c. 1300, "a coming for the purpose of attack," from Old French venue "coming" (12c.), from fem. past participle of venir "to come," from Latin venire "to come," from PIE root *gwa- "to go, come."

 

[luka]

This will be very useful, nice one

use wiktionary too

 

[Benny Bunter]

a small number of root metaphors at the base of all language. the entire conceptual structure built on top of a few things, movements, directions.

That mental ears lecture has me convinced that these methods are not just a good way of getting into Prynne's own stuff, but practically any poetry from any age. He makes the point that he's not suggesting Wordsworth was consciously aware of all these word roots/metaphors when he was writing the poem, but they are there nonetheless and indeed that's pretty much how language, maybe above all poetry, works.

 

[luka]

i think the more you can learn about this stuff the richer all language experience will become

 

[Benny Bunter]

Would be interesting to try it your own work!

 

[luka]

yeah, i mean, i dont know any of this stuff so anything interesting in there was the result of the gods putting it there not little old me. im thick as fuck.

 

[Benny Bunter]

Well, maybe it's best not to be conscious of this stuff as a practicing poet, I wouldn't know. But Prynne is certainly very conscious of it and that's probably why his poetry comes out so weird and incomprehensible.

 

[luka]

my stuff sometimes has quite intricate sound patterning. it creates moods and atmospheres. it very often describes interior events, emotional, spiritual etc. the outer world is allowed to intrude from time to time, to remind you its there. there's jokes and misdirection and playfulness but there's no etymological angle really.

 

[Benny Bunter]

but there's no etymological angle really.

If Prynne's right, and I think he probably is right, then there is - you're just not conscious of it

 

[luka]

yeah, i'd agree, at least in theory.

 

[Benny Bunter]

Another good thing about these methods is you can circumnavigate all the boring concrete political stuff that people read into some of the poems, like this one's about the Vietnam war or M***ism or whatever, and get at the broader, deeper meaningsof the words.

 

[woops]

a small number of root metaphors at the base of all language. the entire conceptual structure built on top of a few things, movements, directions.

shrink the confines down
so that i come back to this

 

[luka]

we are small/in the brain

 

[woops]

we are small/in the brain

r-remix