The Coming Authoritarianism.
mixed_biscuits
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Low resolution view
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Low resolution criticism
If all their money was cash it would be in their hands and not in the bank who are currently refusing to release it to them
Whether it retains worth in a situation like this is a different matter- surely China are about to be bummed badly by inflation if this is all happening - but you're literally looking at what happens when they switch off cashless and show you who's in charge in these videos & your response is "i dont know why people are against cashless payments"
william kent
Well-known member
The other thing with cash is that transactions aren't as easily surveilled and it's not as easy to shut off.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Right, but cash leaves your hands when you spend it, doesn't it? And if you're paying, say, a street vendor for your food, then sure, he's now going to spend that cash directly on something else, and it remains in circulation, for now. But if like most people you shop in a supermarket, then they're not directly recirculating cash, are they? They're taking it to a bank, and it ends up back in the bank's hands. And all big shops are going to behave similarly.
mixed_biscuits
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This is like saying guns shouldn't be banned because you could get stabbed in the eye with a pencil
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I was responding to the video (@version has, in his inimitable style, since deleted his post, I think) showing people kicking off because the bank won't issue them cash.
Obviously, if your bank both blocks your card and won't issue you any cash, then you're royally screwed.
mixed_biscuits
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Bingo!!
The point of revolt against cashless society is that digital centralisation means nothing is in your control and you are hostage to a conceptual entity should said entity decide to withold your existence
You may think you're being clever here with the limp biskit dig, but you've actually just affirmed the whole crux of their whole argument with the above statement, no?
You may think you're being clever here with the limp biskit dig, but you've actually just affirmed the whole crux of their whole argument with the above statement, no?
william kent
Well-known member
Yeah, I deleted it because I couldn't work out whether it was showing what it was alleged to be showing.
Some were saying it was tanks rolling into Henan, others were saying it was footage of some training exercise somewhere else and it was near impossible to tell who was acting in good faith and who was pushing propaganda.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I feel like you're trying not to understand me...
Is cash not a form of centralization, a conceptual entity? Yes, if you got locked out of your bank account, then you can still use cash. But how many people get paid in cash? Maybe you've got a stash of it at home, but once you've burned through that, then what?
Not at all. My point is that the idea that you (a hypothetical 'you' who has a normal job that's not paid in cash) could get by using cash if for some reason they were unable to use digital currency is a fallacy.
Or maybe we're talking at cross-purposes here. I'm not, like, cheerleading for the idea that banks have a massive amount of control over us. I'm just saying that they still have that control over us via their control of the cash flow, it's just not as direct and immediate as their control of our debit cards and internet banking apps.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
If only there were frameworks for digital commerce that don't depend as heavily on central authorities...
But re cash, I'm inclined to think its considerably less dependent on central entities, namely commercial banks and even central banks, than digital fiat is (IE wiring money from one bank account to another), seeing as the latter is ultimately data maintained by database/ledger admin figures, to my understanding.
That said, I would say cash is largely dependent on issuing authorities, insofar as inflation can be some tool of monetary oppression. IE if a monetary authority, statutory like a central bank or even de facto like certain other financial institutions, should choose to deliberately inflate the money system, that can be seen as a sort of central control exercised over cash.
But this control is ostensibly less severe than when cash was backed up by gold reserves, in which scenario the entity in control of the reserves would seem to exercise even greater central authority over the money system, but I could be wrong.
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
Yeah personally I don't see any terminal threat posed toward cash, by digital fiat or by stablecoins or by CBDCs.
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
If anything, I think cash-only commerce may (continue to?) sink down toward some sort of second-class economy, with major capital flows favoring market participants who can use newer media of commerce. But I could be wrong here too.
apologies if this has been posted before, but it's an example of creeping surveillance through tracking cashless purchases
Norway to Track All Supermarket Purchases
Norway collects detailed data from every purchase and wants to store it indefinitely
Norway to Track All Supermarket Purchases
Norway collects detailed data from every purchase and wants to store it indefinitely