Keir Starmer

[shakahislop]

What's a bugger is that when Labour had a lefty in charge, the centrists didn't like it, and now they've got a centrist in charge, the lefties don't like it - but for the Tories, there seems to be no electoral penalty incurred by simply drifting further and further to the right.

its a calculation isn't it, that so far has worked, that at some point might not work any more. basically the decision-making is a load of people sitting in rooms and pubs day after day, talking these kinds of issues through endlessly, based on their beliefs about the world and polling and focus group data. all of which are very fallible and ultimately the whole thing relies on people making judgement calls about something as complex as mass voter behaviour.

obviously the ability of the tories and UKIP to work together at the last election and for the latter to stand down candidates was an advantage at that particular juncture. they also have some powerful media organizations that generally have their back as well (i know that's obvious). it probably also helps a bit that they seem to be extremely focused on keeping power, whereas the labour party has all kinds of other things going on within it i think. i've never really understood that last difference, why it should be like that. in general like a lot of people am way more clued up on the labour party and how it works than the tories, and never found a good source of info on the latter.

 

[shakahislop]

a lot of the peculiarities of the uk, and especially england where there is no countervailing force like there is in scotland or to an extent NI, i think are down to the way you only need a fragment of the population to vote for you to be able to do more or less whatever you want government-wise. it does tend to lead to this pattern of one lot of people being totally dominated by another. almost all power in england is held by the central government, local councils can do very little, the mayor of london can do a bit but not loads, so it is comprehensive.

culturally speaking i think a lot of the doom and gloom comes from this, that if you're not on the winning side you have no other avenue and there aren't any reasonable grounds to hope that anything will get any better most of the time, you know that loads of problems you see every day aren't going to get solved.

related to this, i know it looks like i'm having a conversation with myself if i quote myself, what i was saying the other day about how it felt during the corbyn leadership, was that for me and a lot of people i know there was this kind of affective power that emanated from the party at that point, there was what seemed like a real possibility of change, which hadn't ever existed before in my lifetime and now once again doesn't exist. also it would have been change not on an abstract level but change which would directly have affected my interests, given the corbyn policy approaches on housing, inequality, poverty, looking after old people, all of that was directly related to problems i was having every day and so were people around me.

 

[craner]

 

[WashYourHands]

Choci from Tonka turns up immediately after

 

[IdleRich]

obviously the ability of the tories and UKIP to work together at the last election and for the latter to stand down candidates was an advantage at that particular juncture.

It's incredibly frustrating when you think if the leadership of Labour and the Lib Dems had been able to agree in the same way they would have had an opportunity to seize control and possibly prevent Brexit, along with a number of other aspects of this walking talking cock-up that calls itself a government.

 

[Mr. Tea]

It's incredibly frustrating when you think if the leadership of Labour and the Lib Dems had been able to agree in the same way they would have had an opportunity to seize control and possibly prevent Brexit, along with a number of other aspects of this walking talking cock-up that calls itself a government.

Was this when there was talk of triggering a VoNC? I think the thing that scuppered it was that the numbers would only work if at least a few Tory MPs voted in favour, and Swinson - probably correctly - said they'd never do that if they thought it would result in a caretaker government with Corbyn as PM. But then, if a coalition of parties has come together to form a government, it seems hard to argue that the leader of that government should be anyone other than the leader of the party that makes up the vast majority of that coalition, doesn't it?

 

[IdleRich]

Er that was the time, I don't think it was a VONC but something else wasn't it? An interim coalition maybe, but possibly there had to be a VONC first I dunno. Either way Swinson and Corbyn couldn't see past their ambition enough to even give it a try.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Er that was the time, I don't think it was a VONC but something else wasn't it? An interim coalition maybe, but possibly there had to be a VONC first I dunno. Either way Swinson and Corbyn couldn't see past their ambition enough to even give it a try.

I think the VONC might have had to happen first before the interim coalition thing.

My point was that I don't think it was *just* a clash of egos between Corbyn and Swinson that stymied it - although I'm sure that played a part too.

 

[IdleRich]

I feel they should have been able to find a way to at least give it a go though.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Yes, it was disappointing that they didn't even try.

 

[subvert47]

 

[subvert47]

the only good thing I've heard from Labour in two years...

UK politics live: Labour and Lib Dems make ‘informal plan to topple Conservatives’

Latest updates: follow all the political news and developments from across the UK

www.theguardian.com

beat the Tories, bring in PR, and we won't need to vote for any of these arseholes ever again.

 

[john eden]

On the other hand we might all get antagonised or shot by Angela Rayner's Terror Corps.

‘Shoot terrorists first, ask questions later,’ says Labour’s Angela Rayner

Deputy leader says she has ‘hardline’ stance on crime – urging police to ‘antagonise’ thugs

www.independent.co.uk

 

[luka]

is it true that the labour party has lost 200,000 members since the reviled pedophile and torturer Kier Starmer assumed leadership? i should say haemoraged here shouldn't i? has haemoriged over 200,000 members

 

[Mr. Tea]

is it true that the labour party has lost 200,000 members since the reviled pedophile and torturer Kier Starmer assumed leadership? i should say haemoraged here shouldn't i? has haemoriged over 200,000 members

So many have quit that membership is now actually negative, you'll be pleased to hear.

 

[luka]

 

[craner]

is it true that the labour party has lost 200,000 members since the reviled pedophile and torturer Kier Starmer assumed leadership? i should say haemoraged here shouldn't i? has haemoriged over 200,000 members

It’s a very positive development, 200,000 antisemitic nutcases have returned to their splinter sects.

 

[luka]

this seems highly unlikely to me

 

[Mr. Tea]

 

[luka]

if i wanted to gas the jews i reckon i could find a more congenial home that corbyns labour