He didn't say it was fine, he instructed his MPs to abstain. Why I don't know but it's a different thing. I assume it's about not giving the Tories easy attack lines. It's also a parliamentary way of signalling opposition before you submit amendments before the third and final reading. If they all the against it on the third reading how would you feel John? That's the critical point. There's loads of wilful misrepresentation of this doing the rounds atm.
McCluskey is an appalling influence anyway, glad it's on the wane.
What's to be gained from attacking Starmer's Labour at this time? Seems counter-productive when the Tories are currently in power, have thousands of deaths on their hands and are about to dump Brexit on us as well.
I wasn't talking about this place. I meant Unite cutting their funding and you saying they should have cut it further.It’s cathartic and winds up the ultra-leftists who bought into Corbyn and somehow remain in the party. Also I would never understate the political influence of this place, but I don’t think Sir Kier Starmer is quite as regular on here these days.
The Left are going to endlessly attack him 'cos he's not magic grandpa, basically. Ever Labour leader who's won an election has been seen as a sellout by the Left, even Atlee. Plus ça change.What's to be gained from attacking Starmer's Labour at this time? Seems counter-productive when the Tories are currently in power, have thousands of deaths on their hands and are about to dump Brexit on us as well.
I wasn't talking about this place. I meant Unite cutting their funding and you saying they should have cut it further.
Let’s see if they change their minds and vote against it at the third reading then I guess, when presumably they magically won’t care about giving the Tories easy attack lines or whatever?
I somehow doubt it, but parliamentary logic is not my strong point.
They aren't worried about strengthening the Tories further by hobbling their opposition then?
Things can always get worse.Well I see no evidence of the extraordinarily weak opposition to the Tories (which does not yet even include standing up for the human rights of union reps) being hobbled.
That's a fair point.And presumably Unite can now transfer that money into more effective campaigns instead.
Jon, could you point out where Starmer said it's basically okay for cops to spy on people? Cos there's a lot of this from the Left of the party at the moment and it's classic bad faith. They're fucked off 'cos their messian is not in No. 10 and the confusion over abstention and voting against, and 2nd and 3rd reading is a classic splitting tactic. If only they were as good at winning elections as they are at inciting factional battles.
There's nothing Starmer can do to block the bill - as Ollie says, it'll become law anyway 'cos they've such a large majority. Starmer has the task of seeing if he can blunt the worst of it via amendments balanced with being denounced by the press and media as hating "our boys" and being in love with immigrants etc. I don't know how you square that circle and it's an unenviable position.
And Unite's interests? Such as funding a doomed libel case against a sitting Labour MP? He's a factional player like the rest of 'em. He lost, so he's taking his ball and going home.
How come you're no longer a Unite member, John?
I had thought as much.i dont let politics intrude on important stuff like that. its mainly a tool for annoying mr tea
All this bullshit about Corbyn's fan club. You're talking about hundreds of thousands of people – a lot of them young people, who had never been involved in party politics before – who suddenly saw hope, a chance to change society, and joined the Labour party enthused that this might even be possible. And you all reduce them and their aspirations for a better society to some sort of cult. Well, fuck that contemptible cynicism. Basically.
All this bullshit about Corbyn's fan club. You're talking about hundreds of thousands of people – a lot of them young people, who had never been involved in party politics before – who suddenly saw hope, a chance to change society, and joined the Labour party enthused that this might even be possible. And you all reduce them and their aspirations for a better society to some sort of cult. Well, fuck that contemptible cynicism. Basically.