Where is the avant-garde?

[pattycakes_]

We did cover some of this in padraig (u.s.)'s counterculture thread

 

[shiels]

I was about to raise this. And the reason that feels exciting is because of the psychedelic effect, the boundary dissolving, de-selfing, collective joy and connectedness aspects which can help shift past some of the hero worship and Outdated artist and audience dynamics

 

[shiels]

Psychedelic culture suffers from the same codification that avant garde does

 

[version]

The guys in Silicon Valley who've managed to turn that experience into a tool for corporate efficiency.

 

[luka]

Psychedelic culture suffers from the same codification that avant garde does

that's what it says in my famous thread reunite phsychedial with the avant garde

 

[version]

Perhaps we need to move beyond psychedelia. The machine has caught up so we need to be on to the next thing.

 

[pattycakes_]

Perhaps we need to move beyond psychedelia. The machine has caught up so we need to be on to the next thing.

Which is?!

 

[version]

It used to be avant-garde to break the fourth wall, mess with the chronology of things and break them up and now it's in mainstream film and advertising.

 

[version]

Which is?!

I'll let you know when I find out.

 

[pattycakes_]

Is a counterculture still possible?

We've talked around this in a few threads, but I would contend that it's almost impossible to imagine a counterculture - as opposed to a subculture - existing at this point in time Advertising is so sophisticated and integrated at every level of cultural consumption, and Artists themselves do...

dissensus.com

This thread covered a lot of ground. Counterculture and the avant garde go hand in hand, no?

 

[mvuent]

It used to be avant-garde to break the fourth wall, mess with the chronology of things and break them up and now it's in mainstream film and advertising.

breaking the fourth wall is now just a smug way to signify that you're clever without actually being such

 

[luka]

we need to sieze the G-O-D function

 

[luka]

what's fun about today is that politics and statecraft is postmodern

 

[version]

I wonder how long before someone manages to dose an AI, or at least do the equivalent.

 

[pattycakes_]

Most culture because its almost all corporate.



There are some cultures which will probably never be coopted like psytrance and goth but on the whole it looks like anything that appeals to the youth in a rebellious or underground way will be engulfed by the corps and Internet tribes within seconds of its birth these days. So maybe a good question is is there a way of hacking that and coming up with something that couldn't be coopted while not being as cheesy as the aforementioned?

this is what Debord called recuperation. He foresaw it happening to the Situationist movement itself

 

[luka]

best thing Bannon ever said is that politics is downstream of culture and that is proved by the way politics has become postmodern

 

[version]

@pattycakes_

DeLillo's contention in '91 was that terrorism was the only thing which couldn't be co-opted,

“In societies reduced to blur and glut, terror is the only meaningful act. There's too much everything, more things and messages and meanings that we can use in ten thousand lifetimes. Inertia-hysteria. Is history possible? Is anyone serious? Who do we take serious? Only the lethal believer, the person who kills and dies for faith. Everything else is absorbed. The artist is absorbed, the madman in the street is absorbed and processed and incorporated. Give him a dollar, put him in a TV commercial. Only the terrorists stand outside. The culture hasn't figured out how to assimilate him. It's confusing when they kill the innocent. But this is precisely the language of being noticed, the only language the West understands. The way they determine how we see them. The way they dominate the rush of endless streaming images.”

 

[version]

I'm not sure though. You can buy Bin Laden masks. You can play as the terrorists in CoD. The media make millions reporting on it. It may well have been absorbed like everything else at this point.

 

[pattycakes_]

That's kind of niche though. A bit like how there's always been people into collecting nazi memorabilia

 

[pattycakes_]

Flirting with El Z. Bub