The Front

[shiels]

one of the big things in my life was realising that there is no mask and youre fooling nobody

that was quite a frightening but ultimately liberting realisation. the mask is only a mask for the person wearing it.

youre a kind of puppeteer of the face

'puppeteer of the face' is perfect, who did you steal this from?

In terms of fooling nobody I'm the same way - failing to conceal how i feel in the moment 'what are you smirking about?'. so these days im more likely to try and hide my vulnerability by going the other way, cartoonising, exaggerated role play etc. again, doesnt always work but more fun

the interesting thing is that once you work this out and stop pretending you become much freer to throw yourself into different roles, you actually become way more protean as a result

There's a useful analogy in nature somewhere, I can't remember. maybe like a jealous and possessive lover guarding and being very insecure and killing the buzz. but the realisation that the person is not yours, stepping back a bit and allowing freedom and other relationships to bloom, seeing identity and relationships as collaborative and mutable... can free up energy

 

[shiels]

what led to the change in attitude was a lot of things led up to it, as always when you have a big change, but basically some mushrooms with two other lads and at some point i just decided, delusional probably but never mind, that they liked me, that people generally liked me, that i was likeable and didn't have to worry about the impression i made or conceal anything about my nature. and that stuck with me by and large, for better or for worse

you've stolen this from me too. This was My Ayahuasca Vision when my big intimidating cold stern cynical judging face was melted away by the love of my mum, sister and girlfriend: 'you are ok', tears streaming down my face

 

[shiels]

'yet another all the world a stage thread'

 

[luka]

'yet another all the world a stage thread'

its becasue Gus is obsessed with game theory and all interaction as plotted strategy and manipulation in service to a conscious and clearly defined goal.

 

[shiels]

But would you agree that some of the most fruitful social interactions, as a child or adult, occur at a level where participants are aware that somewhat of a game is being played, and pointing out the game spoils the fun. flirtation being an obvious example, but it occurs in all kinds of relationships

 

[luka]

in the david drake interview he defines cool as an intuitive understanding which i think i agree with by and large and when you try and codify these things you end up with The Game and PUA culture and etc. and at the intuitive level a lot of things are about weights and pressure, it's felt pressing against the skin, how much is too much, how much is not enough

 

[sus]

its becasue Gus is obsessed with game theory and all interaction as plotted strategy and manipulation in service to a conscious and clearly defined goal.

Did you watch the video I posted upthread, I think it makes clearer the dynamics and how they're not what you say at all

 

[sus]

@luka watch this & educate yourself...

 

[luka]

i read goffman in like 1999 before you were born. also im drunk and feel naseous

 

[Clinamenic]

I think the problem here is that our common notion of identity is fixed, and this static notion permeates how we understand ourselves and who/what we aim to become. Really it seems much more realistic to understand yourself as a transformative system (or better yet the abstraction of a transformative system) that is woven into the informational fabric of your environment.

 

[Clinamenic]

The fixed notion of identity is useful though, for singling out aspects of a thing, understanding systems in a pointillistic fashion, etc.

 

[Clinamenic]

And also the whole common language of self-expression and self-knowledge is confined to a rather high-level and abstract layer of understanding ("myself" "who am I?" "what do I want out of life?" etc), atop the layer of understanding which speaks the language of organic systems and physiology, etc.

Choosing where to distinguish these layers is somewhat arbitrary and academic - the point is to traverse as much of this scale as possible, for an integral understanding, I'd say.

 

[Clinamenic]

But also the ability to zoom out and away from ideas in general, I'd say is perhaps more useful than any degree of ideational dexterity.

 

[sus]

I think the problem here is that our common notion of identity is fixed, and this static notion permeates how we understand ourselves and who/what we aim to become. Really it seems much more realistic to understand yourself as a transformative system (or better yet the abstraction of a transformative system) that is woven into the informational fabric of your environment.

Been reading enough cybernetic texts to understand this post, luckily. Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind in particular

 

[shiels]

Been reading enough cybernetic texts to understand this post, luckily. Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind in particular

It’s straightforward shit to me. Look around bro

 

[luka]

look around bro

 

[luka]

but i've been thinking coincidentally about this becasue i read the poem yyyyaldrin recommended and i think it is very good and i think it touches on these themes. i will try and stand up and get it

 

[luka]

my mouse is broken i cant bring it over here someone bring it over here for me so i can look at it its called
of movement towards a natural place

 

[craner]

 

[luka]

@craner can you bring it over here for me please my mouse is broken i cant right click