The Republican War on Transgender People, Drag Queens, and Queerness in General

mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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other_life said:
one out of three of the above preconditions should be enough to begin consultation with a qualified endocrinologist and/or a character analyst who is working with the patient in good faith, with the main goal of easing the patient's mind and showing them that they have options and time
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This regulatory concern, hiding of evidence and general mess suggests that no-one is in a position to be confident that they have found best practice at this stage. In 20 years best practice will probably look pretty different and lots that is being done now would look pretty primitive. You do seem to err on the side of caution but I still don't understand the eagerness amongst many to carry out irreversible changes to immature organisms given that individual picture can change and life is a long time to bear mistakes.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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subvert47 said:
You're making a big jump with "harmful" there. The report claims rather that there isn't evidence to justify them – and that's because Cass ruled out all the evidence.
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Absence of benefit for invasive procedure is harm. Why didn't the clinics submit the evidence if they want evidence?
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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kid charlemagne said:
there are more transgenders as the years go on. i notice this living in a big city. this is repubilcans lifes and it's ending one minute at a time.
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I noticed this on an unseasonably hot day recently but I think some of the crossdressing involves not transgender people or political signalling but laddish lads doing it for the lols in the same way that they might dress up on a stag do. I don't know whether they'd be especially welcome to whatever tribes you've got going on there. There is no social trend that will magically evaporate the Republicans such that you are all living under a benignly senile dictatorship; the numbers always magically resettle such as roughly half are blue and roughly half are red.
 
subvert47

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
maxi said:
They're obviously not the only people affected though, which is the whole issue in the first place. None of what I'm saying is "concern trolling". Again that's just attacking the motive because there's no other argument.
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I'm not attacking your motive. I'm attacking you personally because you don't have an argument. You're just recycling trans-hostile twaddle you read online. For instance...

maxi said:
The 1% statistic is refuted as it happens, you can read about that here https://unherd.com/2023/04/the-media-is-spreading-bad-trans-science/
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Jesse fucking Singal. ffs :rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

maxi said:
How do you feel about the Cass Review? subvert said it's a pile of shit from beginning to end or something to that effect.
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Yes, well, I was angry. I still am. Try Freddy McConnell's piece if you want a more measured response.
 
maxi

maxi

Well-known member
subvert47 said:
Any trans person who expresses an opinion is a de facto "trans activist" and can be rightly dismissed as an extremist (y)
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Look there has to be some acceptable term to refer to an active political movement. I get that "trans activists" can be easily misunderstood but there is a group that exists and it needs to be referred to in some way. Would you prefer "gender ideologues"?
 
maxi

maxi

Well-known member
subvert47 said:
I'm not attacking your motive. I'm attacking you personally because you don't have an argument. You're just recycling trans-hostile twaddle you read online. For instance...
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everyone reads things online. or are you sitting there printing out the cass review page by page before reading it lol.

describing something as "trolling" is attacking the motive because trolling implies a disingenuous approach driven by a desire to upset for its own sake.

in the eyes of some, anything that disputes the accepted viewpoint becomes "trans hostile" by definition. Just like anything that disputes the accepted view on Israel becomes antisemitic by definition.
subvert47 said:
Jesse fucking Singal. ffs :rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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doing an emoji and saying for fucks sake is not an argument. you can't just dismiss a point by scoffing at the writer.
subvert47 said:
Yes, well, I was angry. I still am. Try Freddy McConnell's piece if you want a more measured response.
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I'll read it
 
kid charlemagne

kid charlemagne

Well-known member
mixed_biscuits said:
I noticed this on an unseasonably hot day recently but I think some of the crossdressing involves not transgender people or political signalling but laddish lads doing it for the lols in the same way that they might dress up on a stag do. I don't know whether they'd be especially welcome to whatever tribes you've got going on there. There is no social trend that will magically evaporate the Republicans such that you are all living under a benignly senile dictatorship; the numbers always magically resettle such as roughly half are blue and roughly half are red.
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u are excited for november 2024. i can tell
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
maxi said:
I said your question speaks to that tribalism issue, not that you are part of a tribe. I'm not personalising this or making assumptions about what you think. You could offer me the same courtesy rather than asserting that I'm "refusing to listen to trans people."

I'm not refusing to listen to anyone, we just disagree. Also, trans people don't all think the same thing. I could just as easily accuse you of not listening to trans people too by treating them as a monolith. I could accuse you of ignoring the minority in a group and siding with the most vocal and prominent side.

How would you respond if someone said you were "refusing to listen to Jews" by not supporting Israeli state crimes? Don't you think that would be a bit ridiculous. Or "hey, Israelis are more affected by this than you so who are you to say what should happen in their country?" In fact, that is something you often do hear from Israel apologists.

They're obviously not the only people affected though, which is the whole issue in the first place. None of what I'm saying is "concern trolling". Again that's just attacking the motive because there's no other argument.

I'm not sure the point you're making about the surgery. I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed surgery. The 1% statistic is refuted as it happens, you can read about that here https://unherd.com/2023/04/the-media-is-spreading-bad-trans-science/ . But either way it has no bearing on many of the findings of the Cass Review which concern medical malpractice with regard to children.

How do you feel about the Cass Review? subvert said it's a pile of shit from beginning to end or something to that effect. Even the CEO of Mermaids doesn't say that. She said "there are some real positives within the review."

That's the thing now - there are a bunch of people backtracking and pretending they didn't say what they used to say, because the review has forced them into that position, or in the case of those on the sidelines, because it's now a bit safer to do so.

Again, so much of the general response to this is driven by fear and intimidation. "No one wants to get it in the neck" I think Luka said at some point earlier in the thread.
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Tons of Jews are extremely critical of Israel, whereas trans people are, as far as I'm aware, overwhelmingly opposed to what this report says, and the overall position it represents. So that's not at all a valid comparison.

Your entire position is based on "knowing what's best" for a group that doesn't include you.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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Mr. Tea said:
Tons of Jews are extremely critical of Israel, whereas trans people are, as far as I'm aware, overwhelmingly opposed to what this report says, and the overall position it represents. So that's not at all a valid comparison.

Your entire position is based on "knowing what's best" for a group that doesn't include you.
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So you personally think it's harmful but you stand for their right to be wrong about it and proselytise harmful treatments? That is called moral cowardice.
 
maxi

maxi

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
Tons of Jews are extremely critical of Israel, whereas trans people are, as far as I'm aware, overwhelmingly opposed to what this report says, and the overall position it represents. So that's not at all a valid comparison.
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It's a valid comparison. If Jews overwhelmingly supported Israeli crimes would that stop you supporting Palestinian rights? No. It would still be wrong to support Israeli crimes.

And as it happens, the majority of Jews are unfortunately not critical of Israel. Do you know what the majority of Israelis think? They are obviously more affected by the conflict than any other Jews - so in your view does that mean their opinions are more valid? There are complex reasons for their support related to heavy propaganda, emotional manipulation and trauma. Same with this issue.

Point is, you don't just base your opinion on what a particular affected group says. That would be really stupid. If all the Palestinians came out and supported an ethnic cleansing of Jews to take back the country, would that make it OK? Obviously not.

This is all pretty basic.

The amount of times I heard from people who weren't Jewish that Corbyn was antisemitic... Their argument was "most Jews think he's antisemitic". That's not an argument. If most Jews thought that, most Jews were wrong. It's possible.

Being close to an issue can give you insight on one hand but also distort your perspective due to understandable emotional sensitivities on the other hand. Shouldn't that be quite obvious?
Mr. Tea said:
Your entire position is based on "knowing what's best" for a group that doesn't include you.
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No it isn't, it's based on my best judgement of the evidence in front of me, like with anything else. Do you not approach things that way? Would you suddenly U-turn if trans people overwhelmingly supported the Cass Review without bothering to think it through yourself?

And again, I could use that logic to make the exact same "knowing what's best" argument about you regarding women's rights.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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These matters are clearly of universal importance as a) everyone is potentially trans and b) Jung says we're all a bit trans already anyway.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
maxi said:
It's a valid comparison. If Jews overwhelmingly supported Israeli crimes would that stop you supporting Palestinian rights?
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Hang on a moment, are trans people Jews here, or are they Palestinians? Or somehow both at the same time?

I don't think you've thought this through at all.
 
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