Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Israel is currently at war with Hamas, although in practice the vast majority of the victims of the Israeli military are civilians. I'm sure that's something we agree on.

So are trans people the aggressors or the victims here? If they're the aggressors, who are they victimising? If they're the victims, who's aggressing against them?
 

maxi

Well-known member
I wasn't comparing trans people with the Israeli state, I was comparing trans people's views on this topic with Jewish people's views on the Israel/Palestine conflict, in the specific sense that a person shouldn't just take their position based on the majority view of a particular impacted group.

This analogy has nothing to do with "aggressors" vs "victims" and you could use the same analogy with any group, including Palestinians. You don't just blindly follow the majority view of a group that's affected by something. Basic idea. I used an example I think we agree on to make the point. That's why people use analogies.

I can't keep responding if you're going to misunderstand everything I say it's pointless
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I wasn't comparing trans people with the Israeli state, I was comparing trans people's views on this topic with Jewish people's views on the Israel/Palestine conflict, in the specific sense that a person shouldn't just take their position based on the majority view of a particular impacted group.

This analogy has nothing to do with "aggressors" vs "victims" and you could use the same analogy with any group, including Palestinians. You don't just blindly follow the majority view of a group that's affected by something. Basic idea. I used an example I think we agree on to make the point. That's why people use analogies.

I can't keep responding if you're going to misunderstand everything I say it's pointless
I think what you're tiptoeing around is saying that trans people are the victims of some kind of murky penis-chopping cult and that what they need is brave, progressive, gender-critical people like you to step in and save them.
 

maxi

Well-known member
I think what you're tiptoeing around is saying that trans people are the victims of some kind of murky penis-chopping cult and that what they need is brave, progressive, gender-critical people like you to step in and save them.
desperate strawman
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
desperate strawman
Then why are you taking such a strident position here? Why are you saying it's "important to tell them they're wrong" and talking about "sacrificing children's lives"?

Why do you think none of the people on this forum who are trans or NB, or who are close to trans people like Padraig, agree with your position?
 
Why do you think none of the people on this forum who are trans or NB, or who are close to trans people like Padraig, agree with your position?

Sunk cost fallacy. They have a lot invested in it, in the same way that people who are up to the hilt in other sociomedical scandals don't want to think about what it means if they're wrong.
 

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
everyone reads things online. or are you sitting there printing out the cass review page by page before reading it lol.

No, I've been reading, living, thinking about this for over 40 years. I have a entire wall of books on gender stuff – academic, autobiographical, feminist, legal, polemic, all sorts. You're just another Johnny come lately with no real skin in the game, except perhaps the need to argue on the internet.

in the eyes of some, anything that disputes the accepted viewpoint becomes "trans hostile" by definition

There is no "accepted viewpoint" in the trans community. No "trans ideology". We're like economists. Put two trans people in a room and you get three opinions or whatever. But yes, positing an "accepted viewpoint" (a definitive strawman) and seeking to "dispute" it usually is trans hostile or else quickly becomes so.

I wasn't comparing trans people with the Israeli state, I was comparing trans people's views on this topic with Jewish people's views on the Israel/Palestine conflict, in the specific sense that a person shouldn't just take their position based on the majority view of a particular impacted group.

No, you take your position based on crap you've read online. Which is endless now. Seemingly every ignorant non-trans fucker gets a column to spout misinformed or deliberately malicious nonsense.

And then there are people like JK Rowling, Graham Linehan, Jesse Singal. You can see their career paths on trans issues. They're always the same. Relatively mild at first, just wanting answers to a few questions that occurred to them (as though we hadn't heard and answered those questions a thousand times already), getting slowly more and more obsessed, until they spend a substantial part of every day, believing and propagating any ridiculous nonsense about teh evil trans. Or in Linehan's case all day every day. And you call us a cult.

doing an emoji and saying for fucks sake is not an argument. you can't just dismiss a point by scoffing at the writer.

See, that's the thing. I don't want to argue point by point with whatever new drivel Singal has come out with. A rolling eyes emoji will do perfectly well there. I don't want to argue points with you either. Padraig can do that, has done that, and it seems has stopped doing that, likely because he now feels the same way I do. How we all do. Which is to want to beat you round the head with a baseball bat until you shut the fuck up and leave us alone.

But it wouldn't actually do any good, because there's always another moron on a forum, just wanting answers, just wanting to debate, slowly working themselves up into a permanent frenzy about shit that doesn't concern them anyway. Go take up gardening ffs.
 

maxi

Well-known member
Which is to want to beat you round the head with a baseball bat until you shut the fuck up and leave us alone.
You disgrace yourself with stuff like this. On-brand though because fear and intimidation tactics are what define this fascistic movement. And no I'm not talking about trans people you self-victimising sad sack idiot. Get a grip.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
noone knows what 'fascistic' means anymore. it's just become a floating signifier for what its proponents perceive to be 'thuggish' and 'authoritarian.'

lamentable.

When in reality the problem with fascism was it wasn't truly authoritarian enough (conservative not revolutionary) as it kept the old state mechanisms in check and eventually reverted back to nauseating liberalism. in both the Italian and German cases. Mussolini's body being riddled with bullets is a fitting (and poetic) end to the man who championed the philosophy of the act and hatred of the abstract.

oh, well, back to extremist pseudo-radical poses we go...
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
hey i thought this proverb was about two jews

put two muslims in a room together and you get 200 different opinions.

but yeah, proverb about Jews. which incidentally is why I wrote what I did about fascism.

think about it! left zionist apologetics are more sophisticated than most contemporary Israel apologism, even if they are superficially similar.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
they aren't even objecting to antisemitism, which is a useful barometer for zionists to propagandise, but the idea that all objections to capitalism inherently involve the moneyed Jew. It's wrong, of course, but that's the argument.

So to speak of trans agenda, trans activism, etc, plays into that exact same stereotype of being scared of abstraction. Which is why there is a focus on children, traditionally the preserve of the right.
 

other_life

bioconfused
hmmm i wish i had more intelligent to say about that kind of isomorphism b/w t words and jews esp. around fear of abstraction as the locus of propaganda/popular resentment against both groups bc it's for sure real but i don't have it yet
 
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