Getting banned

[michael]

Hey, my mate dave was banned near the end of January and he has no idea why, so I offered to ask about it. I sent an email to woebot via his profile asking about it, but I guess he's flat chat.

Could anyone shed some light on it? This isn't supposed to be anything sulky or argumentative, it was just a real surprise for dave and I'm buggered if I can come up with any suggestions either, going by his posting record. Was it that he didn't say enough? He assures me he didn't send any naughty private messages...

 

[nomos]

Looking in to this. Check your PM box.

 

[tate]

Hey, my mate dave was banned near the end of January and he has no idea why, so I offered to ask about it. I sent an email to woebot via his profile asking about it, but I guess he's flat chat.

Would this be Dave from NZ who runs lower depths? If so, I'll vouch for him, he's a fine fellow, extremely knowledgeable, hosts great music at his site, (sent me a wicked old hawtin mix once, too, cheers), can't imagine him getting banned for anything anywhere - he's the kind of person we need around here more! If indeed it's the same fellow, I'm guessing that perhaps his IP got confused with the various aliases of hell science sd and so was banned mistakenly? (Obv I could be completely wrong here, disregard if it's the wrong person lol . . . .)

 

[nomos]

According to the control panel it was at Mr. Woebot's discretion. Not sure if it was an accident or something else as there's no reason given, but hopefully he can address by email or on here.

 

[michael]

Thanks nomos, got yr message.

Yes, tate, that's the guy.

 

[Woebot]

strangely his ip address is the only one of 2,500 people which is the same as perennial pain-in-the-ass the undisputed truth

and their posting style/content is absolutely identical:

the undisputed truth
http://dissensus.com/search.php?searchid=59114

dave
http://dissensus.com/search.php?searchid=59117

perhaps coincidentally they're both dubstep fans from new zealand....

this thing has really pissed me off, because call me sherlock, i reckon they're one and the same bloke. furthermore, athough maybe you're ignorant of the fact, i reckon you know this too.

 

[nomos]

matt, i don't believe it's the same guy.

not sure what you saw (those links don't work), but i looked through his 12 posts here: http://dissensus.com/member.php?u=1175

nothing rude, no trolling, just fairly short and polite responses with none of the other guy's signature styles (like the '...' at the start of each point). also no threads started.

and using 'find more users with this IP address' i didn't find him sharing an IP with anyone except, in one case, michael. i've also gone through most of michael's IPs and i don't see any links to undisputed/hell.

 

[Woebot]

firstly it should be stated for the record that the undisputed truth was quite often civil. that is before he eventually succumbed to his baser instincts. innit.

here is the ip information for everyone using an IP address starting 218.101

this was the undisputed truth's address and it was configured so it changed the entire time. was thus harder to lock down:

dave 218.101.64.243
dave 218.101.80.228
dave 218.101.79.19
dave 218.101.75.39
dave 218.101.69.115
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.16
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.6
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.152
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.143
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.225
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.204
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.23
the undisputed truth 218.101.93.25
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.200
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.133
the undisputed truth 218.101.84.119
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.184
the undisputed truth 218.101.90.94
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.146
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.169
the undisputed truth 218.101.84.24
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.104
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.86
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.93
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.226
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.30
the undisputed truth 218.101.90.198
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.91
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.127
the undisputed truth 218.101.84.74
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.215
the undisputed truth 218.101.93.72
the undisputed truth 218.101.93.250
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.97
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.144
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.96
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.231
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.89
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.82
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.227
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.15
the undisputed truth 218.101.97.209
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.97
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.88
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.103
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.83
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.189
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.139
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.48
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.153
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.245
the undisputed truth 218.101.97.148
the undisputed truth 218.101.93.173
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.44
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.99
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.191
the undisputed truth 218.101.88.211
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.158
the undisputed truth 218.101.90.26
the undisputed truth 218.101.93.137
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.140
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.145
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.230
the undisputed truth 218.101.93.200
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.172
the undisputed truth 218.101.86.71
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.71
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.175
the undisputed truth 218.101.84.207
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.231
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.21
the undisputed truth 218.101.86.53
the undisputed truth 218.101.93.46
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.116
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.179
the undisputed truth 218.101.94.242
the undisputed truth 218.101.93.127
the undisputed truth 218.101.93.135
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.166
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.61
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.192
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.160
the undisputed truth 218.101.97.120
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.240
the undisputed truth 218.101.97.135
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.47
the undisputed truth 218.101.92.196
the undisputed truth 218.101.96.188

-

 

[Woebot]

and (i see those links dont work) here are their posts. again i'm afraid i'd have to disagree, they are practically identical.

<b>the undisputed truth</b>

mainstream hiphop is all about getting paid by any means...
Forum: Thought 03-01-2007, 05:05 AM
Live fast...die young - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 70
Views: 2,226
well actually if you reach around to the small of the back when shes climaxing and theres not a patch of sweat there then shes probably faking it...

...and I'd imagine many a 13 yr old boy was the...
Forum: Music 03-01-2007, 05:00 AM
"Cocaine Rap" Sasha Frere-Jones hilarious delusion - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 161
Views: 4,734
fuck sony, fuck the hit factory, fuck rapping for the pop charts and i couldn't give 2 shits about your life or about...



...do you think the clipse give 2 shits about that either ???
Forum: Music 03-01-2007, 04:45 AM
"Cocaine Rap" Sasha Frere-Jones hilarious delusion - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 161
Views: 4,734
and some people can't tell their arse from their face form looking in a mirror...

...maybe those professors, producers and engineers are just straight up bullshitting and brainwashing based on their...
Forum: Music 03-01-2007, 04:27 AM
"Cocaine Rap" Sasha Frere-Jones hilarious delusion - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 161
Views: 4,734
...and off he fucks having fucked off a fuckwit
This message has been deleted by the undisputed truth.
Forum: Music 03-01-2007, 04:24 AM
"Cocaine Rap" Sasha Frere-Jones hilarious delusion - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 161
Views: 4,734
oops my bad...

...got BDDC confused with that throbbing gristle shit someone else was raving about or was that you too ???

do you ever listen to music when trashed and think 'OMG THIS SHIT IS PHAT'...
Forum: Music 03-01-2007, 04:21 AM
"Cocaine Rap" Sasha Frere-Jones hilarious delusion - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 161
Views: 4,734
suspect musical fucking backpacker...

...wherever did you get that idea from ???

i like what i like and just because BDDC may get some coke fiend music professors panties wet doesn't mean it'll...
Forum: Thought 03-01-2007, 04:15 AM
Live fast...die young - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 70
Views: 2,226
if the 13 yr old was pimped out with a come hither look I'd be hard pressed to tell their age and surely they're gagging to be looked such that it'd be shame and a disservice not too...

...all i...
Forum: Music 03-01-2007, 04:06 AM
Joanna Newsom --- "Ys" - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 211
Views: 8,636
turns out the winsome ms newsom is playing right here in Christchurch NZ in a couple of weeks so i might see if i can get her to sign my chest...

...I might even try to blag an interview of her...
Forum: Music 03-01-2007, 03:58 AM
"Cocaine Rap" Sasha Frere-Jones hilarious delusion - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 161
Views: 4,734
...pharrell eh ???

i like his old stuff better than his new stuff especially after his solo album and to be honest I'm wary of your recomendation given the black devil disco you think is shit hot...
Forum: Thought 02-01-2007, 10:24 PM
Live fast...die young - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 70
Views: 2,226
in polynesian custom it was widespread for the aged 'chief' to take a younger wife...

...ain't nothing wrong with 40 yr olds shagging 18-20 yr olds if they're up for it

at least they'd get a better...
Forum: Music 02-01-2007, 10:18 PM
"Cocaine Rap" Sasha Frere-Jones hilarious delusion - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 161
Views: 4,734
we don't get much coke in NZ...

...I've never tried it, so listening to people go on about it in music has as much interest to me as watching the cliche hiphop booty bling video

borrrrrrriiiiinng...
Forum: Music 02-01-2007, 10:05 PM
Joanna Newsom --- "Ys" - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 211
Views: 8,636
funny thing is, i'm now more inclined to make allowances for her music given her percieved kookiness...

...i like kookiness and i'd still hit it. She'd love it and we'd talk about elemental horse...
Forum: Music 02-01-2007, 09:58 PM
DUBSTEP- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 1,715
Views: 75,169
OK then parson...

...to put you on the spot, what is the most original piece you've heard in dubstep of late ???
Forum: Music 02-01-2007, 11:53 AM
DUBSTEP- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 1,715
Views: 75,169
^^^well rather than sample some out of context bit from a nu age or ethnic ambient piece...

...just record them live and chop them up later

i thought i read shackleton was doing some shit with a...
Forum: Music 02-01-2007, 04:07 AM
YouTube video finds - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 178
Views: 10,040
dirty cash I want you...

Adventures Of Stevie V - Dirty Cash ()

this is afrika bambaataas party...

monie love - grandpas party...
Forum: Music 02-01-2007, 03:40 AM
DUBSTEP- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 1,715
Views: 75,169
7 dubstep related things i'd like to see/hear this year...

london
a scuba album
real songs not tunes/beats
more headz making their way to NZ
dubstepforum from my home puter...
dubstep soundtrax to...
Forum: Music 02-01-2007, 03:33 AM
Joanna Newsom --- "Ys" - View Post
Posted By the undisputed truth Replies: 211
Views: 8,636
i thought hipsters were those lo cut trousers hot chiccas wear to show off their slag tags...

...and scenesters were the bandwagon jumping flavour of the monthers

<b>dave:</b>

Search: Posts Made By: dave
Forum: Music 26-01-2007, 02:12 AM
Scritti Politti - View Post
Posted By dave Replies: 65
Views: 1,830
i split buying cupid with my older brother because neither of us could afford it on our own. all i remember now is absolute... i wonder if he still has my side of the record?
Forum: Music 23-01-2007, 01:30 AM
Now that's what I call a record collection vol 1 - View Post
Posted By dave Replies: 8
Views: 651
the conversation would be something like this

"can you help me move house?"
"no"
Forum: Music 19-10-2006, 11:09 PM
Dmz - View Post
Posted By dave Replies: 14
Views: 820
i can't!!! left leg out ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuules. best beat in ages... been hanging out for this since the dubstep warz show on the breezeblock
Forum: Music 18-10-2006, 10:24 AM
Favorite band names? - View Post
Posted By dave Replies: 67
Views: 2,531
the sorecocks (http://thesorecocks.com/)
Forum: Music 27-07-2006, 10:58 AM
How to demo? - View Post
Posted By dave Replies: 34
Views: 1,096
funnily enough, earlier this week i met a guy at the other end of the nz music spectrum (head of a "major" label) who said almost exactly that.

most of the releases that i know had creative nz...
Forum: Music 17-05-2006, 10:57 AM
Jungle/Drum & Bass - Breaking News, gossip, commentary, etc - View Post
Posted By dave Replies: 71
Views: 3,504
nice one rosco - i toally agree - you just saved me 2 minutes of typing.
Forum: Music 22-04-2006, 10:34 PM
Music for Babies - View Post
Posted By dave Replies: 67
Views: 1,268
my 1 year old boy likes dub and poppy techno the most. i've got a hilarious video of him shaking his booty (to a track on trapez) while diggin' the crates.
Forum: Music 27-12-2005, 07:27 AM
Music You've Barely Glimpsed - View Post
Posted By dave Replies: 18
Views: 862
that version is AMAZING. i think its just the second track on the 12" where the beat from tainted love blends into that mental one in 'where did our love go'.
Forum: Music 12-12-2005, 04:15 AM
Modern Dub - View Post
Posted By dave Replies: 58
Views: 1,552
do you mean the limited white label of march down babylon? wish i owned that one, its pretty deep huh.
Forum: Music 30-11-2005, 10:50 PM
Modern Dub - View Post
Posted By dave Replies: 58
Views: 1,552
i'm hoping to get there this year. the lineup on the first night is nuts
fat freddy's drop
king kapisi
shapeshifter
digital
Forum: Music 30-11-2005, 10:45 PM
Modern Dub - View Post
Posted By dave Replies: 58
Views: 1,552
... and now basic channel have their own site too. check this page (http://basicchannel.com/label/Burial+Mix) for the burial mix stuff. w/ the artists is soooooooo good.
Forum: Music 17-10-2005, 10:21 PM
u gotta keep ur eye on dnb.. - View Post
Posted By dave Replies: 39
Views: 1,573
nice one toasted.

i think digital's best tune in recent years is get away -> http://lowerdepths.com/label/?label=bassbin pity this shite real audio clip doesn't do it justice...

i didnt come to this decision on my own. i did ask another one of the admin. if you like nomos i will reverse it, but i think the facts are pretty convincing.

 

[Woebot]

Would this be Dave from NZ who runs lower depths? If so, I'll vouch for him

i'm still open to influence obviously

 

[michael]

Ha, this is really surreal for me. I've known Dave for many years, have worked with him, and even lived with him for a bit. I promise you he's not that Hell SD guy. He lives at the wrong end of the country, for a start!

Dunno what you'd want to prove his credentials? He runs a Digital & Spirit discography site called lowerdepths.com and works for Serato, the company who make Scratch Live.

Here's his Serato forum profile:

http://www.serato.com/forum/profile/?user_id=8

I guess tate hangs out on subvertcentral? Dave's a longtime poster there, caused no stress to anyone to the best of my knowledge.

http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=543


Oh well. He says he's deleted shortcuts he had to the site, etc...

 

[Canada J Soup]

here is the ip information for everyone using an IP address starting 218.101

this was the undisputed truth's address and it was configured so it changed the entire time. was thus harder to lock down

The fact that the first two octets in the IP addresses are the same just means that the machine(s) being used to access the internet connect to the same ISP (in this case it would appear to be Telstra in NZ). If the undisputed truth is a separate individual, his or her IP might have changed all the time because of a dodgy network device that constantly required rebooting (or possibly just because a dial-up connection was being used).

The problem with blocking IPs is that you often have to block whole ranges of them to actually be effective in keeping someone away. This will often inadvertently block other users. Besides, a dedicated nuisance can always just learn how to use a proxy server or some other method of hiding his or her IP.

 

[john eden]

IP blocking is always done as a last resort on Dissensus, for the very reasons Canada J Soup suggests.

 

[mistersloane]

i didnt come to this decision on my own. i did ask another one of the admin. if you like nomos i will reverse it, but i think the facts are pretty convincing.

I don't generally like being involved with politics, but those postings don't read like the same person to me at all, I don't even see similarities, for what it's worth lol.

 

[tate]

Am def not trying to be contrary here, and I have nothing but admiration for the moderation at dissensus, but I do know that Dave is not Hell SD. UFO Over Easy could also vouch, since Dave hosts a a number of Ben's dubstep mixes (check lowerdepths.com under DJ mixes). Dave also hosts tracks by a very good friend of mine who is a producer, and the two of them have known each other, corresponded, discussed technical issues, participated on message boards, etc etc for years. Would literally blow my mind to find out that Dave is Hell SD! As Michael said, Dave works for Serato and is a very knowledgeable person on issues technical and musical. You could also ask other Dissensians who know him (Logos, Ben UFO, Don Rosco, subvert47, at a guess).

I say this with full awareness that moderating, tracking IPs, banning, and so forth, all constitute an enormous and thankless task - and one that the mods do well and that we all appreciate very much. Totally understandable that these kinds of things could happen, and for what it's worth, I find dissensus to be a much more pleasant place WITHOUT hell sd.

 

[michael]

Yeah, I think the mods do a good job, no disrespect at all.

I do want to comment on Canada J Soup's point further, because it could be useful for future moderation.

The fact that the first two octets in the IP addresses are the same just means that the machine(s) being used to access the internet connect to the same ISP (in this case it would appear to be Telstra in NZ). If the undisputed truth is a separate individual, his or her IP might have changed all the time because of a dodgy network device that constantly required rebooting (or possibly just because a dial-up connection was being used).

That's right, and in the case of NZ users it's very likely they're using dial-up if they're connecting from home.

You can get more detailed info about an IP if you do an nslookup on it. The DNS name (i.e. domain name info) will usually show if it's in the dial-up pool.

For example, here's the DNS record for 218.101.92.16:

Server: dns1.clear.net.nz
Address: 203.97.33.1#53

16.92.101.218.in-addr.arpa name = 218-101-92-16.dialup.clear.net.nz.

I checked all 5 addresses mentioned above by woebot for dave, they all come back with that "dialup.clear.net.nz" entry.

I don't know how it is in the UK now, but the vast majority of home users in NZ are still on dial-up. So every time they connect to their ISP their computer will be assigned a new IP from the dial-up pool. Something to think about for future moderation decisions.

When I was staying with dave in November 2005 his family were definitely on dial up. nomos, if you like you could confirm that it was at that time I was using the same IP as him (could be late October, early December).

I guess I'll leave this here.

 

[nomos]

nomos, if you like you could confirm that it was at that time I was using the same IP as him (could be late October, early December).

no that's alright. you and Canada J are absolutely right. i was going to make the same point earlier about IP addresses but i had to run out. as an additional consideration, i'm on DSL and my ISP dynamically re-assigns IPs (drawn from a common pool) all the time as a regular practice. so under my name too, in the control panel, you'll find a long list of addresses attributed to me. about 16 of mine have started with 64.230 and if you do a search on it you'll find 5 other users with the same. just noticed too, if you search 65.93 (another of mine) it also turns up adruu (montreal) and satanmcnugget (toronto)- i.e. people about 550 km apart.

i should also say that i've probably had more contact with hell sd, etc. than any of the other mods because i've been so active on the dubstep forum where he's been banned under a further set of aliases. frankly, there is no comparison between the two posting styles. i've seen enough of the other guy to (usually) know when he's popped up again.

we've got well known dissensians, thoughtful contributors themselves, who are willing to vouch for dave. that should go a long way.

finally, regarding moderation, there's often a degree of intuition and pre-emptive action involved. sometimes it can be hard to navigate and it's often thankless. this sort of thing seems to be inherent to forums though. one time i deleted a user from riddim.ca and scolded them for spamming. it turned out to be a well known (except by me) grime artist who never bothered to come back. so if dave is a good guy and has been accidentally done wrong, hopefully he won't take it personally and will come back.

 

[boomnoise]

hell sd mentioned several times during his short lived reign of terror over at dubstep forum that he uses dial up fwiw.

 

[dHarry]

I don't have any vested interest in Hell_sd (ironically still around here in his new friendlier guise The Undisputed Truth?) or Dave, but there doesn't seem to be any similarity between the two sets of quotations Woebot posted, or anything particularly obnoxious in Dave's posts - is it just a question of a mistaken IP?

 

[Grievous Angel]

Undisputed Truth is banned.

I agree that there is some doubt that the person in question is Hell SD.