films you've seen recently and would NOT recommend

grizzleb

Well-known member
I quite enjoyed 'Shame', the accusations levelled at it in the thread are all true but I think miss the point to some extent. I didn't see the film at any point attempting to do anything like real character development, plot/narrative, there wasn't any really. I seen it more as attempting to sustain a certain kind of emotional (cinematic) response at this guy's life. I think it does that well.
I avoided reading anything about it though so didn't have any preconceptions.
I did think the singing scene was pretty terrible though. I'm not even sure why it was in there but hey.
I also ended up giggling loudly a couple of times as I realised I was nonchalantly shovelling popcorn into my craw watching a ten minute sex scene.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
According to IMDB the singing scene was shot "for real" with the actors not having heard her do it before and their reactions being genuine. I find that hard to believe - he was so moved by a hollywood actor singing a slow version of New York, New York that he cried?
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
the can't get it up because i love you chestnut is incredibly clunky (just about got away with it in Choke though), tis true.

i find lack of narrative fine sometimes, and i haven't read anything about it either (just seen the trailer, which was really well done)...can't shake the feeling i'll be disappointed now though, esp as i held Hunger in high regard.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
The problem for me was that I'd read reviews that described about three scenes in quite a lot of detail - not necessarily a problem but when I realised that each of those scenes was in fact about ten to fifteen minutes long it felt as though I'd already seen about a third of the film. That's not the director's fault of course.
 
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simon silverdollar

Guest
I quite enjoyed 'Shame', the accusations levelled at it in the thread are all true but I think miss the point to some extent. I didn't see the film at any point attempting to do anything like real character development, plot/narrative, there wasn't any really. I seen it more as attempting to sustain a certain kind of emotional (cinematic) response at this guy's life. I think it does that well.

Even in these terms it didn't work for me. I think the intentional blankness of the film dulls any emotional impact it could have. To work on this level I think a film like this has to make you confront an uncomfortable truth, or an awkward question, and Shame did neither for me... It was just tedium.

Also it's way too pretty. Steve mcqueen just can't help himself! It's weirdly prissy and shies away from the squalor. Even the desperate dead eyed rimming scene at the end (er, don't think that's a spoiler...) was so
formally beautiful!

I guess the killer thing for me is that it would be near unwatchable without michael
fassbenders excellent acting. When a film relies so much on one actor to carry it, somethings gone badly wrong.


But it's not the film itself that annoys me, so much as the fawning hype it's getting. Even people I know who like it also feel there's some pretty big flaws to the film, but none of the big reviews I've seen call it out.
 
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grizzleb

Well-known member
I think that's maybe what he was going for. Sex scenes that look 'ostensibley correct' (as sex scenes) in that they aren't full of squalor, they involve attractive participants, and the locations aren't grim (well, apart from one really) and yet through the juxtaposition with the repetitive and compulsive nature of his behaviour, as well as his frustrated emotional yearnings and impasses which we're witness throughout the film create this feeling of a kind of manic self-implosion. That was my response to those scenes anyway.

I thought some of the strongest aspects of the film were in the scenes which were simply displays and repetitions of his maddening sexual obsession - glancing at girls constantly, perving all the time. By constantly framing and reframing it again and again the feeling of pity and revulsion is built up and you're drawn into his obsessive nature.

I don't know why I'm defending it so much though, most of the accusations levelled as I said were probably true. I guess I'm just willing to forgive films a certain cheeseyness or ham-fistedness if I think simple stuff like that is done effectively.
 

grizzleb

Well-known member
Again, I can't comment on the reviews and hype as I've not read any of it. I like not really knowing anything or reading anything about cinema or books I'm going to read, makes the experience less clouded by all my preconceptions.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I think that you McQueen can probably be commended from shying away from making any of the sex too nasty. That would have been a cheap and easy way to get the necessary sordidness, instead he does pretty much manage that with fairly vanilla stuff and relatively attractive actors. Repulsive sex has been a fairly common feature of "art films" over the last few years to the extent that it's become a cliche in itself.
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
i loved shame. its like the self loathing existential hero of taxi driver etc brought back for the sterile '10s. the prob i had with the film is it has a lot of beautiful, memorable scenes (i loved the barroom scene where he starts coming out with almost porno chat up lines), and as a kind of study of loneliness and isolation and emptiness and solipsism etc in the 10s, it does work quite well, fassbender is quite amazing, but theres not enough meat to it (and good as the scenes with carey mulligan are, the context isnt there). the sex stuff isnt hard enough, or grubby enough, it seems to not want to get too much into that, and sex addiction is quite a broad thing, i needed more specifics. it was left too vague, which is good as it never exploitative, but it could have been any addiction, it was really just about one tortured guy alone in new york (reminded me of american psycho and rodger dodger). my other issue with it is that it took itself too seriously at times. there were scenes that were RIGHT on that cusp of being hilarious/silly. im all for beauty but it seemed to be straining a little too hard for meaningfulness and gravity. the shot of him near the end breaking down and crying was just unnecessary and didnt have the impact mcqueen obv wanted it to have, ditto the 3some with him looking almost amusingly pained. it was overegging the tragedy. my other problem with it besides the boss whose boardroom speech about internet marketing and youtube was unbelievably unconvincing is that it doesnt really say enough about sex addiction as it might exist today, or how its affected by modern technology. sure you see him watching porn a lot and getting a webcam girl, but this could have been a film about the subject a decade or two ago. i mention that as in every interview the writer and mcqueen seem to be going on about how its about sex in the modern era when actually it doesnt really do enough to explain how or why it is like that (even if it does show the behaviour of someone with obvious intimacy issues, which is what most theorists think is the result of living in the web porn era).

carey mulligan surprised me as a singer. i actually liked her singing.

im glad i didnt read so much about it before i went - ive caught up on a lot of the reviews and interviews since and fuck me if there arent a ton of them - as that would have spoiled it. i cant understand film reviewers who just describe, describe, describe. if i had read all the reviews before, it probably would have ruined it for me as the film is quite minimal really. not sure about a few critics who have said its sexist. i dont really see that at all.
 
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empty mirror

remember the jackalope
saw a couple of terrible flicks lately

Battle Los Angeles - oof. like watching someone play a violent video game only more tedious.

Avatar - I don't know how I got tricked into watching an oversized Smurf pageant play but... after the first flush of being dazzled by day-glo jungles it just got dead stupid.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Rubber - you're spot on with American Psycho, that's definitely the obvious parallel. Also agree with you about some scenes being potentially powerful but undermined by the lack of context.
 
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viktorvaughn

Well-known member
i loved shame. its like the self loathing existential hero of taxi driver etc brought back for the sterile '10s. the prob i had with the film is it has a lot of beautiful, memorable scenes (i loved the barroom scene where he starts coming out with almost porno chat up lines), and as a kind of study of loneliness and isolation and emptiness and solipsism etc in the 10s, it does work quite well, fassbender is quite amazing, but theres not enough meat to it (and good as the scenes with carey mulligan are, the context isnt there). the sex stuff isnt hard enough, or grubby enough, it seems to not want to get too much into that, and sex addiction is quite a broad thing, i needed more specifics. it was left too vague, which is good as it never exploitative, but it could have been any addiction, it was really just about one tortured guy alone in new york (reminded me of american psycho and rodger dodger). my other issue with it is that it took itself too seriously at times. there were scenes that were RIGHT on that cusp of being hilarious/silly. im all for beauty but it seemed to be straining a little too hard for meaningfulness and gravity. the shot of him near the end breaking down and crying was just unnecessary and didnt have the impact mcqueen obv wanted it to have, ditto the 3some with him looking almost amusingly pained. it was overegging the tragedy. my other problem with it besides the boss whose boardroom speech about internet marketing and youtube was unbelievably unconvincing is that it doesnt really say enough about sex addiction as it might exist today, or how its affected by modern technology. sure you see him watching porn a lot and getting a webcam girl, but this could have been a film about the subject a decade or two ago. i mention that as in every interview the writer and mcqueen seem to be going on about how its about sex in the modern era when actually it doesnt really do enough to explain how or why it is like that (even if it does show the behaviour of someone with obvious intimacy issues, which is what most theorists think is the result of living in the web porn era).

carey mulligan surprised me as a singer. i actually liked her singing.

im glad i didnt read so much about it before i went - ive caught up on a lot of the reviews and interviews since and fuck me if there arent a ton of them - as that would have spoiled it. i cant understand film reviewers who just describe, describe, describe. if i had read all the reviews before, it probably would have ruined it for me as the film is quite minimal really. not sure about a few critics who have said its sexist. i dont really see that at all.


overegging the pudding was key for me

terrible scene at end breaking down and weeping the rain

suicide attempt was trite - easy way to slap on some emotional weight without deserving it through narrative or character development

despicably cheesy piano music.

basically loads of stuff that would have been called out as clinched or OTT in a different film but somehow we are expected to take cos it's beautiful/arty

good -
some funny black humour
fassbender performance
some lovely shots
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
you know what shame keeps making me think of - that drake line on a song near the end of the album, where he says something like 'were part of the generation who dont know how to be in love', and i think mcqueen was really trying hard to nail that sentiment, but im not sure he quite got there. but i have to rate him anyway, for at least trying to say something about it.

im really looking forward to his next film which he says will be about slavery. should be interesting to see how a director like him handles it.
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
not seen anything about that... i think the slavery movie is def greenlit and next in line now.

i cant remember if i posted about it already but my week with marilyn, is actually a pretty enjoyable bit of british fluff, the type of lightweight period thing we seem to do well, but i found michelle williams totally unsatisfying, so she made me dislike the whole thing. not least when the rest of the cast are watching footage of her as marilyn and sobbing about how great she is. it just didnt tally for me. i dont hate MW but i think she can only do one type of role now, the moody blue valentine kind of thing.
 
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baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Re Shame - yeah, mediocre, MTV film-making.

The fact that Brandon just had to be a loner - McQueen essentially saying to the audience "he may be better looking than you, but inside he's miserable and can't make friends", distancing the audience from the character by making him a social loser, in a certain way, rather than making the audience wonder whether he is in fact, them. Same with Carey Mulligan - hey, gues what, she's an abused fuck-up who's going to try suicide (plus we're not going to try to elaborate on her past, just be enigmatically silent about it. Argh.). Spoiler, sorry, but not really since it's so obvious it's gonna happen.

Also, it often looks like a commercial (same problem I have with Anton Corbijn's film-making) - the much-vaunted jogging scene was straight out of a promo video.

Somehow Fassbender still emerges with credit though, and Mulligan too. With a better script and director less in love with surface sheen/cliche, could've been good.

Redundant when put alongside American Psycho.

Watch, for example, 'The Lowdown' - vastly superior film on similar themes (millennial ennui and alienation, essentially). That guy even has friends (who are by and large shit) - he could be you, viewer!

http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/review/shame/5818 This is pretty good.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
you know what shame keeps making me think of - that drake line on a song near the end of the album, where he says something like 'were part of the generation who dont know how to be in love', and i think mcqueen was really trying hard to nail that sentiment, but im not sure he quite got there. but i have to rate him anyway, for at least trying to say something about it.

i don't think he did - on the contrary, he was self-consciously distancing the viewer from any consideration that this all maybe applied to them. in the words of one review, maybe the one I posted, he was flattering the audience rather than challenging or engaging it.

or maybe he was trying, and is just rubbish. :)

I liked New York, New York though.

@victorvaughan - yes, the background music was abysmal, wasn't it? kind of like trying to evoke requeim for a dream with worse music.

oh yeah, and the ultimate degradation takes place in...ta da, an underground gay sex dungeon! He's so degraded he's fucking men now ...jesus.
 
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baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
i think i'm partic annoyed cos the last three 'event' films i've been to see at the cinema (Shame, Wuthering Heights, We Need to talk About Kevin) have all fallen below what I expected. The last such movie I really enjoyed was Black Swan (despite the problems with it)...go figure...
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
I watched Kill List tonight. It's quite good except for the ending. And some of the bits in between that. It felt very British though, which was a really good thing. Children of Morris/Warp, y'know. Ooh it's all fucked up and I can't explain why so I'll make it weird. It's better than that, though, but that definitely is a part of it. The lead actor is great.
 
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