Hyperfrank's Badness homophobia post

[Guybrush]

If you're a promotor and you have a problem with Badness' bars then don't book him or let him know you won't book him again if he continues with that nonsense - that's not censorship, it's just exercising your own right of choice.

But you are just shying away from the term ‘censorship’ here. It’s not censorship as in ‘we are going to forbid you from making your voice heard’, but a promotor-led boycott — if successful — would still have that exact effect in practise. It’s like how Wal-Mart has effectively made American films less sexually explicit due to films rated for their sexual content not getting as a good a spot in their stores as does film which they perceive as being inoffensive. It’s just Wal-Mart ‘exercising their own right of choice’, but the effect their decision has on the ground in Hollywood is still something very much akin to censorship.

On another note, the comparison between the black experience and the gay experience made in the Hyperfrank post I find rather flimsy. A better comparison would be one between religious freedom and sexual freedom. An obvious example: you can ‘hide’, as it were, that you are gay, but you cannot ‘hide’ the colour of your skin. By the same token, you can ‘hide’ your religious belief in much the same way that you can ‘hide’ your sexual preferences. Petty details, but there you go.

 

[noel emits]

And you are comparing grime promoters with Wal-Mart?

 

[Guybrush]

I believe that their grip on the supply side of the market could be said to be similar, yes. My main point being that censorship need not necessarily be decreed from above by some governmental body, but can be imposed by powerful actors on the market. I’m not saying that censorship is a bad thing in this case, but as I fight newspeak whenever I encounter it, I object to the mealy-mouthy way in which some posters describe the suggested censoring.

 

[noel emits]

You might be speaking theoretically Guybrush but did you catch that guy on the radio yesterday? Regardless of opinions on censorship I think that much of what he was coming out with would actually be considered illegal under UK laws which aren't even all that severe regarding such things.

 

[noel emits]

I'd certainly support anyone's right to tell him to shut up.

edited for swearing. it's not nice.

 

[mms]

On another note, the comparison between the black experience and the gay experience made in the Hyperfrank post I find rather flimsy.

The results of prejudice are the same though.
and your idea about hiding religious beliefs or sexual orientation is pretty off the mark, in that you shouldn't have to, having to do so is a result of others percieved prejudice.

 

[bun-u]

Back from 'hols' now (actually it was work but that's btb).

It's probably going to be of little surprise that I'm going to distance Dirty Canvas from Badness' hate lyrics at our event a week last Friday. We had no idea that these particular bars were in his repertoire when booking him and Magic spoke to him about this immediately after his pa (I missed the performance due to working up front). Hyperfrank was right to raise this issue.

While it might be churlish for us to restrict performing grime MCs' lyrics to be 100% positive, we will not accept MCs using lyrics to incite violence against people based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religion etc. Some grime lyrics can often be violent often nihilistic (think Tempa' Ts battle riddim lyrics) but we see these as a general rage against the world and not (to the listener's ears anyway) directed at anyone in particular. We do not condone lyrics, which will make audience members' feel victimised and/or lead to a culture of hate against certain groups of people.

We will take the necessary steps to ensure that all future performers at DC events are made aware of this and that we will not book them for future shows if they choose to ignore. In Badness' case (as this wasn't made explicit in this way) we will wait to see how he reacts to these events before taking a view on any future involvement with him.

 

[petergunn]

Is no-one else seeing this as an example of tension between 'left-wing neeks' involved in the scene and grime's core audience of predominantly black male teenagers? It's a bit of an elephant in the living room.

interesting point...

the RWD thread def. makes that point (OVER AND OVER AND OVER again...)

 

[Logan Sama]

There's no way on earth that is 'the' Killa P.

 

[Melissa]

yes i think people do grow out of homophobia a bit more as they get older, teenagers are insecure about their sexuality principally cos they don't really have confidence with it, so partly they invent it and part of inventing it is choosing the correct version against the version they aren't imo. Also dissing a kid for being allegedly gay is also reducing potential competition for women too.
Some kids in soho called me a batty boy a few years ago and it was just weird and funny, i think it was the scarf i had on or something!
Badness should really watch what he says on rinse fm cos that kind of chatter could really get the station in trouble, and that would be horribly ironic.

Rinse would probably chuck him off

 

[Melissa]

it's like ninjaman who argued lady saw was promoting sodomy by talking about guys going down on her, fucking ninjaman

where was that please? lady saw 4 eva!

what dan says, elephant in the living room: blatantly, and you know that has always been why i was so happy about dubstep tbh as a woman. you would NEVER be spoken to the way Frank & I have just been by CHef Kool FM lol, dickhead. I bet he would try and chat me up at a dance as well lol.

On the other hand tho I've been treated very respectfully as well by the huge majority of grime artists I've dealth with or just met, and that includes Killa P. Seems like these people are only brave enough to rear their poxed heads on forums lol.

given the background of eg mala, coki and pokes, again cultural relativism got no legs to stand on. there is obviously a lot of concurrence between the homophobia and the misogyny. (although not necessarily; badness has been very respectful to me personally). it's bollocks to say it's a jamaican thing, it's a portion however large or small of jamaican society. I dont believe that wikipedia figure, wikipedia is hardly an infallible authority to quote. I also know specific examples of people who have 'turned' homophobic because they idealize Sizzla etc. So Frank big up for what you have done, I dont necessarily think you've done it in the best way but respect anyway and you should stand up against up against them speaking about women like that as well.

Also why is everyone so blithely accepting that this is a thing about grime's origins? I'm sorry but I've been speaking to Geeneus a lot lately and he and Slim as every1 knows were there from day and I swear down Gee wouldn't condone that type of thing, he told off someone outside FWD for throwing flyers at me the other day! I'm gonna ask him about it but if you ask me all this harking to 'oh we're the hardcore grime originals' isn't exactly accurate either. Yeah eski dances were a very Jamaican type thing, but both Gee and Sarah have pointed out to me there were girls involved from day for one. I reckon this is more just an insecure, bullying contingent.

 

[Melissa]

it's like ninjaman who argued lady saw was promoting sodomy by talking about guys going down on her, fucking ninjaman

where was that please? lady saw 4 eva!

what dan says, elephant in the living room: blatantly, and you know that has always been why i was so happy about dubstep tbh as a woman. you would NEVER be spoken to the way Frank & I have just been by CHef Kool FM lol, dickhead. I bet he would try and chat me up at a dance as well lol.

On the other hand tho I've been treated very respectfully as well by the huge majority of grime artists I've dealth with or just met, and that includes Killa P. Seems like these people are only brave enough to rear their poxed heads on forums lol.

given the background of eg coki and pokes, again cultural relativism got no legs to stand on. there is obviously a lot of concurrence between the homophobia and the misogyny. (although not necessarily; badness has been very respectful to me personally). it's bollocks to say it's a jamaican thing, it's a portion however large or small of jamaican society. I dont believe that wikipedia figure, wikipedia is hardly an infallible authority to quote. I also know specific examples of people who have 'turned' homophobic because they idealize Sizzla etc. So Frank big up for what you have done, I dont necessarily think you've done it in the best way but respect anyway and you should stand up against up against them speaking about women like that as well.

Also why is everyone so blithely accepting that this is a thing about grime's origins? I'm sorry but I've been speaking to Geeneus a lot lately and he and Slim as every1 knows were there from day and I swear down Gee wouldn't condone that type of thing, he told off someone outside FWD for throwing flyers at me the other day!!! and made them apologise lol. I'm gonna ask him about it but if you ask me all this harking to 'oh we're the hardcore grime originals' isn't exactly accurate either. Yeah eski dances were a very Jamaican type thing, but both Gee and Sarah have pointed out to me there were girls involved from day for one. I reckon this is more just an insecure, bullying contingent.

 

[Sick Boy]

Hold on a second...

Did Badness go on Rinse FM and say he was going to put a bullet in Hyperfranks headtop?!

Someone please explain this in detail.

 

[mistersloane]

it's like ninjaman who argued lady saw was promoting sodomy by talking about guys going down on her, fucking ninjaman

Sodomy is a strange term which I believe legally does also include oral sex, I think ninja was in the right on that one. Happy to be corrected on that by our legal team though.

 

[Logan Sama]

I think they were pointing out the irony of Ninjaman pointing out other people promoting sins. He obviously didn't read the passage in the New Testament about who exactly is allowed to cast the first stone.

 

[claphands]

Sodomy is a strange term which I believe legally does also include oral sex, I think ninja was in the right on that one. Happy to be corrected on that by our legal team though.

Sorry, I was paraphrasing. Ninja, who has rhymed about getting head and killing people, quoted scripture to claim claim that lady saw's promotion of cunt eating would bring us back to the days of sodom and gomorrah. While I don't know the posters in the rwd thread, I couldn't help but feel that very selective (and likely hypocritical) biblical morality was used the same way.

edit: logan is a step ahead of me

 

[mos dan]

I reckon this is more just an insecure, bullying contingent.

definitely. it is REALLY worth bearing in mind that this is the internet, and not the living breathing grime scene [*insert pointless, sceptical comment about how grime only exists on the internet these days*]. i don't think yr gonna have peter tatchell on one side and the god squad on the other picketing the next dirty canvas lol.

 

[Melissa]

definitely. it is REALLY worth bearing in mind that this is the internet, and not the living breathing grime scene [*insert pointless, sceptical comment about how grime only exists on the internet these days*]. i don't think yr gonna have peter tatchell on one side and the god squad on the other picketing the next dirty canvas lol.

lol that would be fun to write about tho

 

[zhao]

;anyone hear that sizzla tune where he sings "don't you judge me..." prolly recorded in judgement yard. how he can not see the hypocricy is beyond me

 

[Guybrush]

The results of prejudice are the same though.
and your idea about hiding religious beliefs or sexual orientation is pretty off the mark, in that you shouldn't have to, having to do so is a result of others percieved prejudice.

I’m not saying that one of them is worse than the other — I would just like to keep the distinction, that’s all.