Tim F

Well-known member
"serious eyes-down music for serious eyes-down people"

Although this has been true of "funkstep" so far, ultimately boomkat-ization is slightly more subtle than this.

Not all music that appeals to a dubstep-like audience has to be "serious eyes-down", but I think that boomkat-isation does involve a progressive decoupling of "just fun" from art, such that even uplifting tracks within dubstep and post-dubstep scenes need to foreground their artistry somewhat. See for example so much wonky, which can be "fun" but in a "deep artists having fun" kinda way.

So we'll see "uplifting" funkstep tracks I'm sure, but they'll be more likely to resemble "Wonderful Day" or "Love Dub" than "In The Morning" - that is to say, if they're not "dark" they'll at least be "deep".

Simon R says on his latest blogpost (paraphrasing) "we've got enough "fun" party music in the world, we don't need more." But surely by the same logic we've also got enough deep, dark music too?

The real problem is the way in which dance music is so ruthlessly divided into "fun" and "connoisseur" camps (e.g. populist electro-house versus Berghain techno) - as if dance music has to make a choice between being dark/deep and being populist.

Meanwhile, because of the way in which artists so quickly become self-conscious about the need to foreground their darkness and deepness, the "fun" scenes quickly become starved of genuine innovation.

One of the main attractions of funky is its refusal of this false choice, such that, say, Ill Blu can reach towards a kind of rough experimental darkness in a way that also reaches towards a shiny and excitable populism.

P.S. Craner i'm in love with Cooly G too, which is why I find the whole discourse so vexing. I guess it'd be the equivalent of reading Photek circa 1995 dismissing other jungle.
 
I think you're reading way too much into this, I don't get the impression that there's a real split between 'cheese' and 'deep' music in funky. Also, making the assumption of cheese = fun and deep = serious seems very wrong to me, and specially if you're using 'In the morning' and 'Wonderful Day' as examples for the dichotomy.

every time I hear a comment like "some of this funky stuff is alright once you get rid of the gay vocals and the cheesy stuff," part of me dies...
I certainly agree with you there, but isn't doing exactly the opposite equally exasperating?
 
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Poet for Hire

Well-known member
I think you're reading way too much into this, I don't get the impression that there's a real split between 'cheese' and 'deep' music in funky. Also, making the assumption of cheese = fun and deep = serious seems very wrong to me, and specially if you're using 'In the morning' and 'Wonderful Day' as examples for the dichotomy.


I certainly agree with you there, but isn't doing exactly the opposite equally exasperating?

I totally agree. "In the morning' is totally the wrong example to use for the proponents of cheese to use because its really an insult to call it cheesy, especially if you are taking 'cheese' positively. Musically its 20 times better than most funky vocal tracks because it doesn't rely on the tepid organ stabs that seem ubiquitous in a lot of bland wine bar vocal funky. Musically and vocally its perfect and therefore should be an example of sitting perfectly on the tightrope between fun and musically interesting.
 

franz

Well-known member
yea, i have to say, i have no idea what this conversation has to do with most of the music i've been enjoying for the last year or so. more exceptions than there are rules, that i can think of.
 

Tim F

Well-known member
I totally agree. "In the morning' is totally the wrong example to use for the proponents of cheese to use because its really an insult to call it cheesy, especially if you are taking 'cheese' positively. Musically its 20 times better than most funky vocal tracks because it doesn't rely on the tepid organ stabs that seem ubiquitous in a lot of bland wine bar vocal funky. Musically and vocally its perfect and therefore should be an example of sitting perfectly on the tightrope between fun and musically interesting.

To be clear on a couple of points:

1) I'm not saying that funky is divided between deepness and cheesiness (or darkness and pop, or etc.). I'm saying that funky dissolves any such divide but the invocation of "funkstep" - or, leaving the strict term to one side, the notion of some kind of "experimental vanguard" within funky - tries to install such a divide.

2) I'm not trying to defend cheesiness: my entire point is that scenes tend to divide between anti-cheese experimentalism and anti-experimental "fun", and I don't want to see that happen to funky, because each "side" is less interesting in isolation. The idea of wall to wall vocal anthems with minimal emphasis on interesting grooves interests me no more than Caspa-style dubstep.

3) I absolutely agree that "In The Morning" isn't cheesy. It's the perfect example of how funky walks "the tightrope between fun and musically interesting."

4) I like "Wonderful Day", but it's obviously playing to certain ideas of musical progression ("authentic" vocals; the shimmering production which is obviously a really big part of its appeal).

5) I absolutely agree that this debate has little to do with "most of the music i've been enjoying for the last year or so. more exceptions than there are rules, that i can think of." That's kinda my point!!
 

alex

Do not read this.
Yea, I bought "Wonderful Day" thinking the instrumental was on there. Little did I know there was another vocal on the flip. Was not impressed.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.

This is a great beat (personal Ill Blu favourite from what I've heard), but, as I've not been keeping up with the inroads of MC-ing into funky, are there MCs with slightly more charm? This isn't Do You Wanna Bang Doe, but it's not that far removed - witless "this is how we roll, spend money money money, ladeez" bilge. Obviously the role of MCs in funky is gonna be different from grime, as in being more of a hypeman a la jungle MCs, but...well, I'd rather hear Wiley or whoever over this stuff.

Edit: Must add to the love for Wonderful Day. Sure there're real vocals on there, but there were loads of 'real' vocals in funky before - don't get the difference, except that all the vox before were female, perhaps?! Love the way that the drums start moving when the vocal comes in.

Another thing I can't undeerstand is why there hasn't been more discussion of the fact that DYWBD is over Segaliser (or something very similar), by common consent (?) one of funky's most avant moments. In its own "oh my God, what have you done to Apple?" way, it's walkign that tightrope between obvious and experimental.
 
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Corpsey

bandz ahoy
The chirpy chap on wonderful day makes me want to hate it but whenever that b-line comes in I want to buy it again. It would be boring without the vocal too... :confused:
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
he ruined segaliser.

but if you'd never heard segaliser before, and heard bang doe, you'd be all "wtf is that beat?!" Lots of seminal beats have been smuggled in under overly-populist, bland or regrettable vocals. granted, that is a particularly regrettable vocal.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
yeah i know but i dont think that track really needs to be smuggled, def not by a so-so MC - that track has been massive for ages... what i need more than funky dee is more apple beats. though i suspect they all sound totally samey, i love his sound.
 

contango

Member
One of the main attractions of funky is its refusal of this false choice, such that, say, Ill Blu can reach towards a kind of rough experimental darkness in a way that also reaches towards a shiny and excitable populism.

^this is on point. my favorite music in any genre almost always falls into a similar category: stuff that pushes the envelope, but still works on the dancefloor.
Tunes like Wad/Black Sun/Natty Dub, don't really do either IMO. Most of that stuff just sounds really dull and aimless to me. Even as experimental music I don't find the ideas very interesting at all. A lot of my friends who have good taste in music really love this stuff, but it still just leaves me cold.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
^this is on point. my favorite music in any genre almost always falls into a similar category: stuff that pushes the envelope, but still works on the dancefloor.
Tunes like Wad/Black Sun/Natty Dub, don't really do either IMO. Most of that stuff just sounds really dull and aimless to me. Even as experimental music I don't find the ideas very interesting at all. A lot of my friends who have good taste in music really love this stuff, but it still just leaves me cold.

thirded. black sun/wad etc are okay in a dubstep context for breaking up the flow a bit and sounding a bit adventurous within that context but theyre a bit unfulfilling on both fronts. they sound a bit contrived in how theyre obviously trying to bridge both sounds.
 
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