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Irish-Israeli girl Emily Hand freed by Hamas after 50 days of captivity in Gaza
Nine-year-old daughter of Dublin-born Thomas Hand was among 240 people taken hostage by Palestinian militants in Israel on October 7th
Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...
- Thread starter Mr. Tea
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chava
Well-known member
maxi
Well-known member
it's hard to think of a more reprehensible rhetorical move than calling the son of holocaust survivors a 'holocaust denier'. meanwhile douglas murray's been saying hamas are worse than the nazis because apparently they felt very bad every night after coming home from treblinka. he also can't even grasp basic facts on the ground like the blockade of gaza. the guy's a total moron
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
PR-wise, the Palestinians are really missing a trick by neglecting to give their kids names, don't you think?Irish-Israeli girl Emily Hand freed by Hamas after 50 days of captivity in Gaza
Nine-year-old daughter of Dublin-born Thomas Hand was among 240 people taken hostage by Palestinian militants in Israel on October 7thwww.irishtimes.com
(Yeah yeah, I know - hilariousNPCmeme.jpg)
vimothy
yurp
it's clear that Egypt will not be keen to allow gaza to resettle in its borders given the links between hamas and the muslim brotherhood. one idea that I've heard mooted however is bringing Qatar in in some form to manage or rule the gaza strip, post invasion. is this equally fantastical or does it have some potential?ethnic cleansing fantasy 2.0. Egypt won't accept 2 million refugees, but maybe if we break them up into little pieces the rest of the world will.
was also the subject of a WSJ editorial a couple weeks ago by two current MKs
Opinion | The West Should Welcome Gaza Refugees
Europe and the U.S. accepted millions who fled earlier wars.www.wsj.com
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
first, expelling all of Gaza to Egypt isn't new, it's been an Israeli fantasy since 1948. it's been tried many times in many different forms and it's always been an non-starter. and rn is an especially bad time bc Egypt is already experiencing an economic crisis and serious instability, the last thing it needs is 2 million refugees and the resulting tidal wave of social and political upheaval. here's an article which goes thru the history (you'll like it, very behind the scenes realist geopolitics).
Gaza and the Making of a New Middle East Order - Geopolitical Futures
The ferocity of the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas will reshape the Middle East. Its brutality is reminiscent of World War II's final battles, which
geopoliticalfutures.com
I haven't seen anything about Qatar, but I question how that would even work. it is true that Qatar is the de facto intermediary in the Iran-Saudi/Israeli cold war and the only place that successfully plays all sides - i.e. a close American ally that simultaneously funds Hamas and hosts its exiled leadership - so I assume the thinking is that it would be acceptable to all sides, unlike some kind of international administration and peacekeeping force which it's very hard to see Israel agreeing to. but Qatar is also a tiny Arab minority ruling over a non-citizen, largely South Asian work force. how is it going to administrate and police Gaza? is the idea that there would be some kind of Qatari governor overseeing Palestinian civil administration with Qatari funding (or yunno funding from wherever, funneled thru Qatar)?
could you point toward an article or even some Twitter threads where someone has fleshed this idea out? it seems like a fantasy to me but I don't want to say for sure until I understand better what it is exactly
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
it's the same with the West Bank. Annexation has been gathering momentum for awhile now in Israel, but Jordan would refuse to take in massive numbers of refugees, and Israel would be caught in the cleft stick between giving Palestinans full and equal civil rights and threatening the Jewish majority or apartheid (which already exists in the WB, but they pretend it doesn't under very flimsy pretexts).
the reasons Egypt, or Jordan, or etc don't want to take in a massive influx of refugees are the same reasons no govt would want to. Every ruler in the ME surely remembers 1970 when the PLO almost toppled the Hashemite monarchy in Jordan, or 1982 when Lebanon got caught in a middle of an Israeli-PLO war. these population transfer (that is, ethnic cleansing) ideas only make sense from the Israeli perspective, which is why it will never happen.
the reasons Egypt, or Jordan, or etc don't want to take in a massive influx of refugees are the same reasons no govt would want to. Every ruler in the ME surely remembers 1970 when the PLO almost toppled the Hashemite monarchy in Jordan, or 1982 when Lebanon got caught in a middle of an Israeli-PLO war. these population transfer (that is, ethnic cleansing) ideas only make sense from the Israeli perspective, which is why it will never happen.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
some other relevant things that have happened lately
Hamas is dragging out the hostage exchanges as predicted and the Israeli govt seems pretty content to let them
three Palestinian-American college students were shot and badly wounded in Burlington VT in a probable tho yet to be confirmed hate crime
unsurprisingly Max Blumenthal's claims about Oct 7 turn out to be, like many Blumenthal claims, mostly bullshit. it'll be paywalled but the tldr is that ther are two confirmed friendly fire incidents, one at Be'eri where 10 Israeli hostages died in a crossfire and the other possibly by a helicopter at Nova. Blumenthal uses heavily selective quoting and repetition to make it seem as if there were many such incidents and that it's being suppressed by Israel, but those two incidents are common knowledge there, Yasmin Porat has been interviewed on major outlets, etc.
(edit: Blumenthal responded to Haaretz on Twitter basically reiterating his case, ymmv on trusting him as a source on anything so decide for yrself)
Hamas is dragging out the hostage exchanges as predicted and the Israeli govt seems pretty content to let them
three Palestinian-American college students were shot and badly wounded in Burlington VT in a probable tho yet to be confirmed hate crime
unsurprisingly Max Blumenthal's claims about Oct 7 turn out to be, like many Blumenthal claims, mostly bullshit. it'll be paywalled but the tldr is that ther are two confirmed friendly fire incidents, one at Be'eri where 10 Israeli hostages died in a crossfire and the other possibly by a helicopter at Nova. Blumenthal uses heavily selective quoting and repetition to make it seem as if there were many such incidents and that it's being suppressed by Israel, but those two incidents are common knowledge there, Yasmin Porat has been interviewed on major outlets, etc.
(edit: Blumenthal responded to Haaretz on Twitter basically reiterating his case, ymmv on trusting him as a source on anything so decide for yrself)
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
also I have talked a lot of justified shit about Haredim in this thread but let it not be said that I ignore the positives when I see them. i just learned today about the existence of ZAKA, an ultra-orthodox volunteer organization that recovers bodies for burial after bombing and other attacks, both Jews and non-Jews, including the remaining parts of suicide bombers to return to their families (which really surprised me). they also do general disaster relief work. so, big respect to the volunteers of ZAKA I guess.
there is a Jewish concept of levels of charity and I don't remember all of them but that general idea was that the less reward - emotionally or in social capital - you get for giving the higher the level, and the highest one was to give anonymously and not know who was receiving it (only that it was someone in need), and this seems to be in that vein, performing a service for someone who has passed beyond the abiity to thank you for it.
there is a Jewish concept of levels of charity and I don't remember all of them but that general idea was that the less reward - emotionally or in social capital - you get for giving the higher the level, and the highest one was to give anonymously and not know who was receiving it (only that it was someone in need), and this seems to be in that vein, performing a service for someone who has passed beyond the abiity to thank you for it.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
and Douglas Murray is absolute garbage btw
he's basically a secular version of evangelicals who like Israel for their own bananas eschatological reasons, only in his case he likes it bc it's an ethnostate which heavily restricts immigration and where politicians can get away with publicly saying racist shit about Africans and Muslims, and he wishes England was more like that
he's basically a secular version of evangelicals who like Israel for their own bananas eschatological reasons, only in his case he likes it bc it's an ethnostate which heavily restricts immigration and where politicians can get away with publicly saying racist shit about Africans and Muslims, and he wishes England was more like that
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
the latest on Bibi's efforts to cling to power
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
This is anti-immigrant bigotry: the first thing a country in economic trouble needs is a shot in the arm of thousands of willing and able workers, keen to contribute to what they consider their promised land. Egypt is a multicultural, multiracial place informed, nay established, by generations of immigrants. There is no 'typical Egyptian', no ringfenced 'Egyptian' culture. The pyramids were erected with the help of foreign labour ffs. For shame.
entertainment
Well-known member
thought Finkelsteins thing about not wanting to condemn anything where he couldn't know what he himself would do in the same situation was a bit silly. you're not going to get very far with that sort of reasoning.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
It really is your life-long mission to make everyone here bar about two other people think you're a total cunt, isn't it?
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
I'm confused as to why some people here deem far right things beyond the pale when they are done by white people but completely fine when done by other people. In fact, so fine that they are suddenly really good ideas and completely moral. Are these people actually far right when change of context makes them lose their politically correct bearings or do they just have racist double standards?
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Egypt is, broadly speaking, a poor and not particularly stable country. So no, they can't just take on well over two million refugees without that having some impact on people already living there, obviously.
And the question "Why can't Egypt just take them?" includes baked into it an assumption that it's fine for these people to be forcibly expelled from their homes (or to have their homes destroyed and then be expelled from the land where those homes used to be) by Israel.
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
Look, Farage, there shouldn't be a problem with Egypt temporarily taking refugees whose number is less than a fiftieth of their population. If you hadn't noticed, where they are at the moment is quite periclitous for the time being. They can move back once Israel has found their Hamases.
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
There's no better illustration of this left wing becomes right wing phenomenon than the anti-semitism march at the weekend, which the left couldn't even be bothered to attend as a token gesture of disambiguation re anti-semitism/anti-zionism.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Israel's ideal solution is for them to remain there permanently, of course.
I have no idea what 'periclitous' means. What they're being is massacred.