Yeah but see here's the thing. I don't disagree with the specifics of that post, I disagree with its scenastor aspect. Scenes are the inevitable process of gentrification. It's not a case of defining the limits of rudeboy, but a case of separation, of expunging. Dance music works best within those liminal spaces, with in the gaps. 93-early 94 when jungle hadn't fully crystalised, 2001-2002 when dark garage hadn't fully crystalised into grime/halfstep, 1974-76 when disco was emerging from the merger of funk, soul and jazz. 2007-08 when funky was 8 bar adapted to a house template. The list is endless. What Tim wants is to say these moments are indeed those which need to be championed, but that they are also scenastor scenes. Except they aren't, which is precisely why the deterritorialisation (or the centre as it were) cannot hold.
The sacred cows
Yeah but see here's the thing. I don't disagree with the specifics of that post, I disagree with its scenastor aspect. Scenes are the inevitable process of gentrification. It's not a case of defining the limits of rudeboy, but a case of separation, of expunging. Dance music works best within those liminal spaces, with in the gaps. 93-early 94 when jungle hadn't fully crystalised, 2001-2002 when dark garage hadn't fully crystalised into grime/halfstep, 1974-76 when disco was emerging from the merger of funk, soul and jazz. 2007-08 when funky was 8 bar adapted to a house template. The list is endless. What Tim wants is to say these moments are indeed those which need to be championed, but that they are also scenastor scenes. Except they aren't, which is precisely why the deterritorialisation (or the centre as it were) cannot hold.
You've never made a single argument that has stood up to scrutiny on this forum. You seem to be more obsessed with me than I am you. It's bizarre given that I'm not even remotely on your side. Dance music as a culture of leisure is over for me. It's dead and buried. Let it go! It's like prog rock. Of course the good records will survive into eternity but clubbing has nothing left to offer but a regurgitation of the same.
No, I mean it. I champion a culture that is in the past. I'm just not afraid to acknowledge that. There is nothing redemptive left in dance music. Like you can criticise my taste in dance music as being too stiff, too macho etc, but that's the aspect of my thinking that people don't seem to click with. Of course it's noisy and joyless! We're in post-edenic times. That's all that house was able to be. A feeling that you had to pay £20 for. Ironically Barty is arguing something similar. That the art of songcraft and composition is dead. He just takes the opposite side to me, but we converge on this.
because that was Luke's contension that I don't make arguments. Except I always do. You can't complain about me going hard on boxed when Luke has a free pass to bully whoever he wants, including his friends.
Call me out, sure, but don't strawman me first. and the way boxed enthusiastically gets behind anything dissing me is not lost on me, which like I don't care, but then be prepared to face me in the arena. Don't run away.
Like I said, Crowl is right. Childish shithousing and little else, but it's easy to deploy me as a convenient scapegoat.
Call me out, sure, but don't strawman me first. and the way boxed enthusiastically gets behind anything dissing me is not lost on me, which like I don't care, but then be prepared to face me in the arena. Don't run away.
Like I said, Crowl is right. Childish shithousing and little else, but it's easy to deploy me as a convenient scapegoat.
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Like this could be interpreted as homophobic lol, not that I care, but it's weird how boxed won't take offence at this but as soon as someone who isn't straight calls his value set into question on this forum he piles on because hey that's only his territory and noone elses.
Leo
Well-known member
you're impossible sometimes, can't even accept a compliment. and you weren't "going hard on boxed", you just lazily insulted him.
I wasn't talking about you're method of arguing, I was initially jokingly noting your digs at Tim ("the only thing" he wrote that's any good) and Simon (who apparently made a good point decades ago but hasn't written anything worthwhile since), and then called you on an unnecessarily insulting remark to boxed.
I wasn't talking about you're method of arguing, I was initially jokingly noting your digs at Tim ("the only thing" he wrote that's any good) and Simon (who apparently made a good point decades ago but hasn't written anything worthwhile since), and then called you on an unnecessarily insulting remark to boxed.
I didn't even engage with him before he decided to stick his ore in. I agreed to stay away from him but he won't offer me the same courtesy.
As for Simon I was obviously being facetious. But it cannot be denied that his writing has dipped in quality ever since the continuum petered out circa 2007 or so. He hasn't coined as many of those creative neologisms which made his earlier writing such a joy to read.
here's one then: back in January, when I first got into it with you about the constant, petty and personal needling across various threads directed at me from yourself, and I foolishly rose to the bait, you then DM'd me to apologise for being a bit hard on me. I told you I wouldn't accept the apology because it was active and sustained and I had no interest in being part of it. You told me to "suit myself" and since then you've been even more venomous, with weird attempts at anti-Scottish discrimination and homophobia (oh but you're not straight). If you were sincere in thinking you'd been combative and unnecessary, and you had any sense of genuine contrition around it, you wouldn't be doubling down on the antagonising. What you want, is to be able to throw insults and viciousness around with impunity, and the fact I won't let you away with that when it's aimed at me is something you don't like.
As for me being weirdly obsessed with you, well yes I am going to pay attention to someone who sends tweets out into the world alleging that I'm a sex offender because my taste aligns with a blogger whose peak was a decade ago, an attempt to discredit any reputation I may have with bizarre illogic.
But - as my auto-generated email updates on threads I follow tell me - I'm not the one who spent two hours at 2am on a Thursday night posting and editing a reply to a comment, with the final result being entirely different to what was originally posted.
As for me being weirdly obsessed with you, well yes I am going to pay attention to someone who sends tweets out into the world alleging that I'm a sex offender because my taste aligns with a blogger whose peak was a decade ago, an attempt to discredit any reputation I may have with bizarre illogic.
But - as my auto-generated email updates on threads I follow tell me - I'm not the one who spent two hours at 2am on a Thursday night posting and editing a reply to a comment, with the final result being entirely different to what was originally posted.
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Prove it.
So you can't prove it then? What was that about .. scrutiny?
Also you do realise that this is the textbook definition of an ad hominem fallacy, right?
luka
Well-known member
i generally cant be bothered constructing arguments either. it involves a kind of meticulous working backwards from a conclusion or beleif which doesnt suit my temprement any more than it suits thirds.
i can do it, if pushed, but i always resent having to do it. tim finney is probably a good lawyer becasue he does it naturally. his mind is like a sock drawer which is fully colour coded matched and folded
i can do it, if pushed, but i always resent having to do it. tim finney is probably a good lawyer becasue he does it naturally. his mind is like a sock drawer which is fully colour coded matched and folded