Metal Machine Music

[nomadthethird]

infact 50 cents a visual phenomenon inne?
its all about that bullet riddled finely tooled body, thats his selling point, thats what he sells through computer games - witness his first video - return from surgery of some sort at a secret lab in the desert
interesting as it implies two things, life saving surgery, or the kind of creation of a man-machine, or a frankenstein, course dre and the slim shady are watching proceedings.
He later went on to do a video game called 50 cent - bullet proof. He also endorsed george bush after katrina. He also launched a dietry supplement!



the rest of he video is all birds and bubbly though.

I agree with this, definitely. That is exactly what the early 2000s crop of billboard charting hip-hop artists is about. 50 Cent is to hip-hop what Sylvester Stallone is to the Italian-American community in film industry. After you have the mythical "gangster" of a certain ethnicity built up in American culture, it's not too long until you have these gigantic, chiseled "man-machine" type of representations of these gangsters popping up everywhere.

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with that. The idea that black people are only supposed to be represented in the media as the downtrodden but wisened sage who is above commercial concerns who should only speak to what is "edifying" in humanity--that's called the "mammy myth." I believe that, first, this is a dangerous sort of glamorization of poverty where the idea is that black people exist only to teach white people lessons about why materialism is bad, and second, it's very condescending and aims to deny black people the same right to make nonsensical commercial fluff that white people have always had.

 

[nomadthethird]

the petty wranglings of g unit vs whoever and who cares did always seem to be pretty unimportant.

Especially in the past decade, most of the beefing is just PR chicanery anyway meant to stir up interest in soon-to-be released singles.

 

[mms]

I agree with this, definitely. That is exactly what the early 2000s crop of billboard charting hip-hop artists is about. 50 Cent is to hip-hop what Sylvester Stallone is to the Italian-American community in film industry. After you have the mythical "gangster" of a certain ethnicity built up in American culture, it's not too long until you have these gigantic, chiseled "man-machine" type of representations of these gangsters popping up everywhere.

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with that. The idea that black people are only supposed to be represented in the media as the downtrodden but wisened sage who is above commercial concerns who should only speak to what is "edifying" in humanity--that's called the "mammy myth." I believe that, first, this is a dangerous sort of glamorization of poverty where the idea is that black people exist only to teach white people lessons about why materialism is bad, and second, it's very condescending and aims to deny black people the same right to make nonsensical commercial fluff that white people have always had.

the african american male as an above the law gangster, who does whatever he does also has it's mythology in stagger lee too, a kind of african american folk archetype.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagger_Lee

i guess what i'm trying to say is 50 cent is interesting though as he's gone beyond hip hop into a kind of board for hanging advertisments on, almost someone that lived the american dream or survived americas nightmare for african americans at least, which he celebrates in a way that completely chimes with the kind of endorsements and irresponsible indulgences of the neo-conservative administration, which he also supported. You are right it is the same stuff and lifestyle that rich white american neo conservatives would advertise as well, but equally they're old dinosaurs too.
Thats what makes him quite a reactionary character for me, other ones are more complicated, not quite as straight forward as him, i have this guy down as a neo con dinosaur at heart.

 

[nomadthethird]

the african american male as an above the law gangster, who does whatever he does also has it's mythology in stagger lee too, a kind of african american folk archetype.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagger_Lee

i guess what i'm trying to say is 50 cent is interesting though as he's gone beyond hip hop into a kind of board for hanging advertisments on, almost someone that lived the american dream or survived americas nightmare for african americans at least, which he celebrates in a way that completely chimes with the kind of endorsements and irresponsible indulgences of the neo-conservative administration, which he also supported. You are right it is the same stuff and lifestyle that rich american neo conservatives would advertise as well, but equally they're old dinosaurs too.
Thats what makes him quite a reactionary character for me, other ones are more complicated, not quite as straight forward as him, i have this guy down as a neo con dinosaur at heart.

Yeah I see what you mean, and yes it's one of the neo-con's favorite archetypes--the ubermacho manmachine ready for war.

In fact, making the ghetto a sort of war zone was the classic neo-conservative strategy for keeping radical black activism from taking hold after the civil rights movement peaked.

I have 50 cent down as an entrepreneur extraordinaire first and foremost...

 

[mms]

Yeah I see what you mean, and yes it's one of the neo-con's favorite archetypes--the ubermacho manmachine ready for war.

In fact, making the ghetto a sort of war zone was the classic neo-conservative strategy for keeping radical black activism from taking hold after the civil rights movement peaked.

I have 50 cent down as an entrepreneur extraordinaire first and foremost...

yeah that's also what i was getting at, he's an exemplary street warrior and american survivor, (of a situation that continued administrations have allowed to carry on) but also an american success story if you like, alot of what he sells in his songs and advertising is as the idea of conspicuous unadulterated consumption as the primary measure of success, which when you put that up against the current climate/change of administration and american outlook doesn't rub too well.

 

[nomadthethird]

yeah that's also what i was getting at, he's an exemplary street warrior and american survivor, (of a situation that continued administrations have allowed to carry on) but also an american success story if you like, alot of what he sells in his songs and advertising is as the idea of conspicuous unadulterated consumption as the primary measure of success, which when you put that up against the current climate/change of administration and american outlook doesn't rub too well.

Yes but there's also something to be said for "overidentification" as a strategy for teasing out all of the latent or blatant contradictions in the American dream and such...

 

[scottdisco]

Here's the entire issue I have boiled down to the bare minimum in word count: given the frequency I hear this "hip-hop is full of fake representations of life in the ghetto meant primarily to entertain clueless white people" comment being made by British people, online, in the press, and elsewhere, I have begun to question whether there are serious cultural differences at work that make hip-hop lose something in the translation when it crosses the Atlantic.

nah, just certain Guardian / troll / tabloid etc. twunts i fear

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Here's the entire issue I have boiled down to the bare minimum in word count: given the frequency I hear this "hip-hop is full of fake representations of life in the ghetto meant primarily to entertain clueless white people" comment being made by British people, online, in the press, and elsewhere, I have begun to question whether there are serious cultural differences at work that make hip-hop lose something in the translation when it crosses the Atlantic. Whether someone like Biggie's music is 100% factually autobiographical is beside the point--even if he'd lived in Beverley Hills, his music speaks to something in American culture that is real, and expresses something that I think needed expressing badly at the time.

I'm not saying it's only British people who have expressed racist attitudes when it comes to hip-hop; many Americans have strange or hypocritical attitudes about hip-hop, but they usually don't or won't make the exact claim quoted above because they understand how it would be immediately tagged as offensive by other Americans. In fact, the only Americans I've heard say the exact same thing are strict conservative Christians, like Falwell.

Yeah but I don't think that's cos white Americans have a better understanding of rap & it's place in the culture. I think we & our public figures simply tend to be a little cagier about it cos by & large we live in closer proximity to people of color (whereas from what I understand in the UK it's really confined to London & a few other large cities, yeah?). So, euphemisms rather than bold declarations but it largely amounts to the same thing.

I'd agree that hip hop "loses something in translation" but more across a combination of racial & class lines than national borders. It seems like the kids making grime in London & the kids in the banlieues of France understand hip hop pretty damn well.

 

[Chris]

yeah that's also what i was getting at, he's an exemplary street warrior and american survivor, (of a situation that continued administrations have allowed to carry on) but also an american success story if you like, alot of what he sells in his songs and advertising is as the idea of conspicuous unadulterated consumption as the primary measure of success, which when you put that up against the current climate/change of administration and american outlook doesn't rub too well.

OTM I think, with regard to the current mood out here.

 

[zhao]

serious cultural differences at work that make hip-hop lose something in the translation when it crosses the Atlantic.

shit if you think UK don't get it, try on the clue-less convoluted bullshit that is (part of) the German hiphop scene. in a country with actual working social programs (difficult to imagine for americans) where problems like abject inner city poverty and degradation is relatively mnml... most of these kids that ape the style have no idea about the context of the music. these days you even have full on right-wing, nationalist Nazi hiphop with racist songs about xenophobia and hating foreigners...

EDIT: of course there are very good hiphop artists here and their following as well.

 

[STN]

I'm sure the Nirpal guy thinks he's completely above board in everything he says. That is the problem.

I've not read all the links you posted to, and I don't doubt there's some weird and offensive attitudes expressed within them, but Nirpal Dhaliwal is pretty widely acknowledged to be a bit of a dick.

In fact, I think he's only famous because his (now ex-) fiancee had a column devoted to what a wanker he was.

 

[scottdisco]

I've not read all the links you posted to, and I don't doubt there's some weird and offensive attitudes expressed within them, but Nirpal Dhaliwal is pretty widely acknowledged to be a bit of a dick.

In fact, I think he's only famous because his (now ex-) fiancee had a column devoted to what a wanker he was.

Johann Hari actually wrote a very bracing column about how Nirpal fucked over Liz Jones once, i used to read Liz Jones all the time (my grandparents get the Mail on Sunday ) in that YOU magazine the SMail has, and she was a bloody good read.

Hari here.

 

[petergunn]

infact 50 cents a visual phenomenon inne?
its all about that bullet riddled finely tooled body, thats his selling point, thats what he sells through computer games - witness his first video - return from surgery of some sort at a secret lab in the desert
interesting as it implies two things, life saving surgery, or the kind of creation of a man-machine, or a frankenstein, course dre and the slim shady are watching proceedings.
He later went on to do a video game called 50 cent - bullet proof. He also endorsed george bush after katrina. He also launched a dietry supplement!



the rest of he video is all birds and bubbly though.

i could give two shits about 50, but a few things...

wanksta was his first video, not in the club, yunno street single first...

50 had already had a lot of press WAY before that (and WAY b4 he got shot) b/c of How to Rob, his novelty (ala Mad Rapper) track talking about robbing all hip hop artists... i remember he had a big article in XXL or the Source when it came out... many took offense, notably Ghostface who did that Clyde Smith shit about 50...

but, yeah 50, like Wiley, is one of those dudes who lives for war... serious... and like Wiley, no one really ever seems to beat him... i mean Dipset and D-Block came HEAVY against him, somehow no one walks away with the W,,,


"curtiisssssssssssssssssssssssssss"

 

[scottdisco]

wanksta was his first video, not in the club, yunno street single first...

choon!

 

[mms]

i could give two shits about 50, but a few things...

wanksta was his first video, not in the club, yunno street single first...

50 had already had a lot of press WAY before that (and WAY b4 he got shot) b/c of How to Rob, his novelty (ala Mad Rapper) track talking about robbing all hip hop artists... i remember he had a big article in XXL or the Source when it came out... many took offense, notably Ghostface who did that Clyde Smith shit about 50...

but, yeah 50, like Wiley, is one of those dudes who lives for war... serious... and like Wiley, no one really ever seems to beat him... i mean Dipset and D-Block came HEAVY against him, somehow no one walks away with the W,,,


"curtiisssssssssssssssssssssssssss"

yeah you're right about wanksta and how to rob, i guess i should have said big endorsed international hit.

 

[Mr. Tea]

these days you even have full on right-wing, nationalist Nazi hiphop with racist songs about xenophobia and hating foreigners...

How uncool, even Hitler is over xenophobia these days:

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[Tentative Andy]

wanksta and how to rob.

Those are the two that are usually put forward for the argument that he can actually be quite good when he wants to aren't they? Can't quite remember if I ever heard them.
Thought P.I.M.P. was decent, in terms of the tune and the beat. The G-Unit stuff I think is pretty ropey tbh. And things like Candy Shop, ugh.

 

[Sick Boy]

And things like Candy Shop, ugh.

That beat was fucked though.
Otherwise, 50 is a fuckin plank.

 

[zhao]

How uncool, even Hitler is over xenophobia these days:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

"this video is not available in your country" synopsis? is it a joke (hopefully) or no?

 

[Tentative Andy]

Definitely a joke.