Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
Just to clarify, is that a sincerely intended generalization or an obviously hyperbolically stated emotional outburst of displeasure?
Stalked!
- Thread starter martin
- Start date
Just to clarify, is that a sincerely intended generalization or an obviously hyperbolically stated emotional outburst of displeasure?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
No personal offence intended, but isn't this quite likely to make you see any aspect of yourself you dislike as something inflicted on you by a cruel external world?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
It does seem to smack of "speaking as a woman, on behalf of all women everywhere..."
N
nomadologist
Guest
huh? i see MDs to treat symptoms. no shrinks now, but maybe eventually.
being repeated assaulted, harassed, and abused are not "aspects of myself that i dislike."
this is getting uglier and more ridiculous. i really shouldn't bother...
N
nomadologist
Guest
oh for the love of god. some things are "generally" true. people who crusade against any idea that women might have a collective blight are ridiculous. OBVIOUSLY when I say "most" I mean "most women I know." why don't some of you talk to women about these things? i've done tons of that.
don't you think it's "generally" true that black americans have a tougher time than white americans?
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N
nomadologist
Guest
Same old song and dance from those who should be educated enough to be understanding. It makes me sick.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
OK, so you were generalising, fair enough.
One thing that does puzzle me, though, is if women have a worse time of it than men (on average, of course), why are rates of depression, mental illness and suicide so much higher amog men, especially young men?
I'm talking about in the UK here, though I suspect it's probably a similar situation in the US.
One thing that does puzzle me, though, is if women have a worse time of it than men (on average, of course), why are rates of depression, mental illness and suicide so much higher amog men, especially young men?
I'm talking about in the UK here, though I suspect it's probably a similar situation in the US.
N
nomadologist
Guest
I'd ask for Hundredmillion's help here, since he's so much better versed in Lacanian psychoanalysis. But I would say in watered down sublayterms that male suicide has to do with ego--men/male sexuality is much more built up around the male ego, so when things go wrong, there is more at stake. A man's individual worth is made up of his place in the community, his professional accomplishments, his belongings, his property. Women don't traditionally own property (we have a patrilineal system of property inheritence in agrarian societies), don't have a "value" outside of the domestic realm. As a woman, you aren't allowed to feel like your individual ego is worth anything to the point where there's no ego to be devastated by setbacks. (You just get to despair in silence and unfulfillment because you don't matter anyway, that sort of thing...) If a woman loses her job, even her high-powered career, it's usually not her entire sense of identity/sexual value.
Rates of suicide are higher for men, but many would guess that rates of depression/mental illness are only less diagnosed in women (not less common) because they're less likely to result in violent outcomes when untreated. In fact, they've found that women who live under the veil in Middle Eastern countries suffer from ASTRONOMICALLY high rates of clinical depression.
Here's another question: if men are less "emotional" than women, why are they responsible for nearly all "crimes of passion" as defined in common law?
Rates of suicide are higher for men, but many would guess that rates of depression/mental illness are only less diagnosed in women (not less common) because they're less likely to result in violent outcomes when untreated. In fact, they've found that women who live under the veil in Middle Eastern countries suffer from ASTRONOMICALLY high rates of clinical depression.
Here's another question: if men are less "emotional" than women, why are they responsible for nearly all "crimes of passion" as defined in common law?
swears
preppy-kei
Who implied that in the first place?
N
nomadologist
Guest
I've read some psychological journals where psychologists guessed that women commit suicide less often (despite similar incidence of depression/mental illness) because they're better at creating support networks outside of their sexual relationships--i.e. women vent more to a series of friends and neighbors, coworkers, family members, and seek out more emotional support in times of need.
N
nomadologist
Guest
Millions of people throughout human history. Ever heard of "hysteria"?
swears
preppy-kei
I meant on this board/thread.
N
nomadologist
Guest
Anyway, if it makes you feel like life is more fair, I suffer from suicidal depression. Medications make the lows a little more bearable, but nothing really "fixes" anything.
N
nomadologist
Guest
No one necessarily. But I'm not just responding to what people say on this thread in my assessment of humans in general.
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
Well, yeah, I've done a fair bit of it myself. I know lots of women, some very well, and the quote I highlighted above just doesn't square at all with their view of the world as I understand it.
Yes, obviously. And it's also generally true that most perpetrators of rape are men. But if you're coming out with highly emotive statements like 'men are creeps' or 'there's almost as much stigma on being a victim of sex abuse as there is of committing it', you're going to get flamed. If I went on a message board and said 'all women are begging for it' I've expect an absolute roasting. You are obviously educated to a pretty high level (higher than me at any rate!), can't you understand the need for linguistic precision - especially in a sphere where your audience don't get any help from body language or intonation?
Bottom line is that I just don't recognise any shred of the world you describe in my everyday dealings with men and women. I can't believe that most women hate the world in ways that most men don't, solely on account of thier gender.
It feels teeth-grindingly patronising to be typing this, but I have to say that you do seem to have been immensely unlucky in your past experiences.
N
nomadologist
Guest
No less lucky than millions of women. The worst part for me is that there are many many women who've had it a lot worse than I have, and people get hung up on semantics and never do anything to help them.
Lots of women buy into the normative order of things so as not to cause a scene, Gabba. I guess it's lucky for you that you don't have to be bothered by anyone's difficult stories in your everday life.
Do you know that once you've been a victim of rape, you're more SEVEN TIMES more likely to be raped again than someone who hasn't?
PS What I don't understand is: why so defensive? If you're not a creep, what do you care if someone says she's had to deal with a lot of creepy men. Big deal! If there's no truth to what I'm saying, it doesn't seem like it'd even be worth responding to
Lots of women buy into the normative order of things so as not to cause a scene, Gabba. I guess it's lucky for you that you don't have to be bothered by anyone's difficult stories in your everday life.
Do you know that once you've been a victim of rape, you're more SEVEN TIMES more likely to be raped again than someone who hasn't?
PS What I don't understand is: why so defensive? If you're not a creep, what do you care if someone says she's had to deal with a lot of creepy men. Big deal! If there's no truth to what I'm saying, it doesn't seem like it'd even be worth responding to
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I guess this is pretty much a no-brainer...
Well, men commit the vast majority of any kind of crime, don't they?
I'd harldy say men were less 'emotional' than women, just that men have traditionally been brought up to think that it's 'girly' or 'gay' to show one's emotions, and in this case are just as much victims of stereotyping as women are in the examples you've given.
N
nomadologist
Guest
Yeah, I think sexism keeps men from fully enjoying life, too. I'd never say things don't suck for men. But men aren't as often victims of sexual abuse/harassment/assult (unless you count prison stats? which I would have to 1) see, and 2) be sure they weren't all maximum security convicted rapists raping each other) as women, nor are they victims of incest as often. There are lots of forms of suffering that are unique to women, just as there are to men. Not acknowledging them does no one any good.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Oh, sure. I agree with that. Sexual equality should not be seen as a zero-sum game, with women only making gains at the expense of men - if it's the 'good' sort of sexual equality, it improves life for everyone.
(what I mean by the 'bad' sort of sexual equality is women rapidly catching men up in the binge-drinking/drug abuse/antisocial behaviour abuse stakes, that sort of thing - which is what's happening in the UK, at any rate)
(what I mean by the 'bad' sort of sexual equality is women rapidly catching men up in the binge-drinking/drug abuse/antisocial behaviour abuse stakes, that sort of thing - which is what's happening in the UK, at any rate)