We Are All Willing On The Catastrophe
- Thread starter luka
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- attack of the climate virgin barty i hope you die you bastard blood for the blood god coping mechanism desecrating the pink temple disappointed dissensus death cult doomers gonna doom droid malfunction droid vs roids fuck off and cry over your candles hard reset irish troubles it's all coming down j.g. well 'ard jesus christ corpsey kevinoak nuke the whale ohmyfuckinggodnotthisshitagain revolutionary suicide riot season she who spits out precious stones stormchasing terminal orgasm
vimothy
yurp
lets come back to this,
if people consistently choose X (say, violence), that's not evidence of any kind of desire for X? quite the reverse in fact?
Corpsey's mate Joe Rogan likes to talk about things like martial arts being important because human beings still operate on mechanisms which are no longer used due to the relative safety of modern Western society. The idea being that people suffer from things like anxiety, road rage and whatnot because they're primed to look for danger in a society where there is none.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
Fast moving thread, hard to keep up.
Someone mentioned revolutionary violence upthread. It's probably worth mentioning that at the beginning of revolutions the agenda is often focused on gaining political concessions and positive social change. You still lots of actions essentially rooted in pacifism, such as peaceful occupations and mass mobilisations of protestors alongside a concerted effort to *stop* violent escalation. This was very true in the early days of the Syrian revolution - protestors were trying hard as dammit to resist state provocations because they were very conscious of where it would (and did, sadly) lead to. There's footage of protestors handing out flowers and water to the police for instance and the emotional tone is nothing if not joyous.
We're seeing I think the same dynamic in Hong Kong. I heard a report of the first live round fired by police a day or two ago, and the non-violent protests seem to sliding towards confrontation/more violence. Idk how far it will go.
To hold revolutions up as proof of some kind of destructive drive is I think lacking historical specificity. They often start with the absolute opposite intention - social justice - and that urge given expression via explicitly non-violent means.
Someone mentioned revolutionary violence upthread. It's probably worth mentioning that at the beginning of revolutions the agenda is often focused on gaining political concessions and positive social change. You still lots of actions essentially rooted in pacifism, such as peaceful occupations and mass mobilisations of protestors alongside a concerted effort to *stop* violent escalation. This was very true in the early days of the Syrian revolution - protestors were trying hard as dammit to resist state provocations because they were very conscious of where it would (and did, sadly) lead to. There's footage of protestors handing out flowers and water to the police for instance and the emotional tone is nothing if not joyous.
We're seeing I think the same dynamic in Hong Kong. I heard a report of the first live round fired by police a day or two ago, and the non-violent protests seem to sliding towards confrontation/more violence. Idk how far it will go.
To hold revolutions up as proof of some kind of destructive drive is I think lacking historical specificity. They often start with the absolute opposite intention - social justice - and that urge given expression via explicitly non-violent means.
I suppose in short what I'm saying is you can often see the best of humanity at work in revolutionary situations - communality, sensitivity and creativity.
The degeneration into violence so often comes from the state so I find it hard to accept revolutions as proof of any kind of destructive thesis at work in people.
The degeneration into violence so often comes from the state so I find it hard to accept revolutions as proof of any kind of destructive thesis at work in people.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
Willing it on is a a way to feel at least a little bit in control of it all. Same shit as 4chan voting in trump. A fuck you to the reality forced upon us
luka
Well-known member
Once again what was posited is a notion of the real as being life concerned with the exigencies of survival Robinson Crusoe pitting his wits against nature. This is a fantasy which rooted so deep in the culture it would tedious to enumerate examples. Whether you let vim convince you that 'man is evil' or not is your own concern.
luka
Well-known member
What humans are comprised of is always being fought over and I'm not arguing for a natural innate drive here at all. As vim says it is more likely than not culturally and historically contingent. Meatheads like Rogan want to naturalise their meathead tendencies (*"man like this$violent) and I'm not suggesting we let them get away with that old trick
luka
Well-known member
And we will differ in how we choose to acknowledge, channel, repress, express, satisfy, deny these things and we will differ in our conclusions as to what they are and where they came from. I think there are very obviously assumptions about "nature" that fall into the hands of the right. I am very unambiguously not on the right. Vim very unambiguously is.
luka
Well-known member
Often with droid I feel he always ascribes evil to the outside, something imposed by power without anything acquiescent, collaborative or willful in humans beyond physical frailty and individual mortality to help it on it's way. This may be a mischaracterisation. Vim has a fairly dull commonplace vision of men being bestial.
luka
Well-known member
Certainly all these beliefs have practical and political corrolaries and are there to be fought over tooth and nail with the proviso that starry eyed optimism is not necessarily an ideal ally here. I think we have to honest about what we find within ourselves, if only to ourselves
luka
Well-known member
This for instance is not a move I would be inclined to let vim get away with.
