Benny Bunter
Well-known member
Bad vibes Jimi. You're saying that people who like Jackin somehow feel they have to justify it by pretending it sounds like garage when it actually doesn't?
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Bad vibes Jimi. You're saying that people who like Jackin somehow feel they have to justify it by pretending it sounds like garage when it actually doesn't?
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
I pretty much agree with the sentiment in this and of course you will find elements of tech house in Jackin just as you find elements of grime, hip hop, funky, whatever else. But what Jimi is doing is over-emphasising the tech house thing above all else (I'm sure partly as a reaction to Datwun's zealousness). Lets not forget that northern bassline was also basically garage with less swing and more goofiness (to put it crudely). These are things that distinguish it from being 'just tech house'.
and anyway Jimi, garage is not just about swing yunno, and the 'classic' uk garage swing is really only a certain type of swing. Swing is used in many different ways in practically all types of house music. All this 'straight 4x4 kick, stuck on the grid' stuff is really nonsense. Its like all the obsessing over the 130 tempo on that thread, like why even bother mentioning, let alone criticising/praising, a genre of HOUSE music for having a 4x4 kick? ffs
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Benny Bunter
Well-known member
When I say swung I mean the highhats and the snares, it's swung like Todd Edwards is swung, all twitches, fills and details.
Even this which has a pretty strict 4 to the floor thing going on has shuffle in the highhats.
But yeah, Kane from Cause and Affect has talked to me about how the first music he got into was mid 90s pre-speed garage garage-house, and that swung 4x4 thing is everywhere in jackin.
All I know is that I can dance to jackin all night long and that as soon 'big room', 'deep' or 'tech' house comes on, I get bored shitless. It's not a nuum thing, it's not an ideological thing, it's a literally enjoyment of the music thing. To my ears the difference between any given jackin tune and any given mainstream house fodder is night and day.
You post that Jump Da Line tune and talk about how the breakdown and samples are the only things that differentiate it. That seems like plenty to me! The things which differentiate jackin from tech etc. house would seem to run in some order like this:
1st and most importantly, the massive, oversized, very very UK, jungalistic, speed garagey, bassliney, jackin basslines. most house doesn't do that shit.
2nd - the samples, the sound pallet I.E its silliness, its poppieness, its cheesiness, its affiliation with hiphop and trap, the fact that a jackin tune might just break into a Craig David tune midway through, just for the hell of it:
3rd - its song structure, build and drop, which relates to electro house, but also to 'ardcore, bassline, dubstep, garage, edm, but essentially RAVE musics, as opposed to CLUB musics, which most strands of house fall under.
4th - its drum programming, which combines a strict 4x4 house kick drum pattern with loads of slinkiness and skippyness in the high hats (primarily) and the snares (secondarily), a skip and swing which comes from a /direct garage influence/ according to my chats with a bunch of the major producers in the scene (Lorenzo, Kane, Shorterz).
I don't need to justify that jackin is the most enjoyable music in the world at the moment, nor that the scene up in Birmingham makes London look retrograde, stuck up, joyless and shite. But I know from my experiences on the dancefloor when it ends up that a night a DJ starts playing standard tech house (a very common experience in London), and from going to jackin raves, playing jackin at raves, and hearing DJs play jackin tunes in otherwise non-jackin sets, that jackin and tech house are really fucking different.
Even this which has a pretty strict 4 to the floor thing going on has shuffle in the highhats.
But yeah, Kane from Cause and Affect has talked to me about how the first music he got into was mid 90s pre-speed garage garage-house, and that swung 4x4 thing is everywhere in jackin.
All I know is that I can dance to jackin all night long and that as soon 'big room', 'deep' or 'tech' house comes on, I get bored shitless. It's not a nuum thing, it's not an ideological thing, it's a literally enjoyment of the music thing. To my ears the difference between any given jackin tune and any given mainstream house fodder is night and day.
You post that Jump Da Line tune and talk about how the breakdown and samples are the only things that differentiate it. That seems like plenty to me! The things which differentiate jackin from tech etc. house would seem to run in some order like this:
1st and most importantly, the massive, oversized, very very UK, jungalistic, speed garagey, bassliney, jackin basslines. most house doesn't do that shit.
2nd - the samples, the sound pallet I.E its silliness, its poppieness, its cheesiness, its affiliation with hiphop and trap, the fact that a jackin tune might just break into a Craig David tune midway through, just for the hell of it:
3rd - its song structure, build and drop, which relates to electro house, but also to 'ardcore, bassline, dubstep, garage, edm, but essentially RAVE musics, as opposed to CLUB musics, which most strands of house fall under.
4th - its drum programming, which combines a strict 4x4 house kick drum pattern with loads of slinkiness and skippyness in the high hats (primarily) and the snares (secondarily), a skip and swing which comes from a /direct garage influence/ according to my chats with a bunch of the major producers in the scene (Lorenzo, Kane, Shorterz).
I don't need to justify that jackin is the most enjoyable music in the world at the moment, nor that the scene up in Birmingham makes London look retrograde, stuck up, joyless and shite. But I know from my experiences on the dancefloor when it ends up that a night a DJ starts playing standard tech house (a very common experience in London), and from going to jackin raves, playing jackin at raves, and hearing DJs play jackin tunes in otherwise non-jackin sets, that jackin and tech house are really fucking different.
could any regular posters link to mixes or places that post mixes of this? like just to get an idea of the sound in general its kindof hard with all these individual tracks, have any mixes or compilations or anything been released? is the youtube channel certified jackin a good resource? they seem to be linked to a lot
jimitheexploder
Well-known member
Didn't mean it in a harsh way obviously and it aint all people, a lot of people just plain love cheesy stuff and rave about it. Its just not a vibe I get on here tho. It is the vibe I get from ILX for like all music tho, they're unashamed about some really cheesey stuff jackin included and thats wicked, but on here its almost as if excuses have to be made a lot of the time so odd paralells are drawn for the sake of saving face or something like that. Its getting less and less which is good cos it was sounding silly, but now you and oter will happily throw out the word fidget or tech hosue when before it was like a massive slight or something so yeah good work. Embrace the cheese.
jimitheexploder
Well-known member
I still don't know if those tracks are swung enough in the hats to justify any kind of garage tag, most house has a little variation in hats. They are more swung than a lot of the stuff I found tho. Shake it is defo way more garage you're right.
But how is this track you posted...
any less tech house then...
which most people wouldn't have a problem calling tech house.
Shake it sounds like DJ Zinc era breakbeat garage, but tamer with more of a tech house/electro pallet of sounds, kind like DJ Zinc's Crack House era stuff which was pretty much his go at electro house to get in with Fake Blood, Erol Alkan etc.
But how is this track you posted...
any less tech house then...
which most people wouldn't have a problem calling tech house.
Shake it sounds like DJ Zinc era breakbeat garage, but tamer with more of a tech house/electro pallet of sounds, kind like DJ Zinc's Crack House era stuff which was pretty much his go at electro house to get in with Fake Blood, Erol Alkan etc.
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Benny Bunter
Well-known member
you're not gonna let this lie are you?
Just had a quick skim through my Soundcloud feed and picked out the following most recent uploads:
Cause & Affect 45min Mix
Hecktik 4th Birthday Mashup Mix Vol 3
Dawn Chorus 6th Birthday Live - Ryan Blyth
Haven't listened to them yet but sure that at least one of those will be good.
Don't think any mixes or compilations have been released as yet?
Certified Jackin' is the best YouTube channel for Jackin' vids.
jimitheexploder
Well-known member
Just talking about music on a music forum dude. You gave examples in a convo to me, I'm talking about them. I mean why not. Its really interesting how diffrent people see the same music. Jackin is a really intesting one since its really unlike a lot of music that dissensus types or Marcus Nasty types would be into but a lot of them are so why not talk about it. See where it comes from, see where its going, etc. I'm just showing some thru lines I see. If you aint fussed just throw out youtube links or something.
wise
bare BARE BONES
this
if you're expecting 2 step swung you're going to be disappointed this is a 4x4 garage skippy hats ting.
Hits you in the hips that's the big diff to tech-house for me
finally found a mix that does this stuff justice, mixed like I would play it, full of energy
https://soundcloud.com/matthewcraig88/matthew-craig-jackin-bass-15
only 30 mins in but this one's so good
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jackjambie
Voodoo Priest
surely enough to even tickle the haters on here, a very CLASSY mix up of danger from the mans like cause & effect now up 4 free D/L on soundcloud -
">
couple of builders then BANG. dirty jackin bass. some actual filth creeping in towards the end (correct use of the word. very mucky).
too many highlights, but check out the darkside pressure on this aaaaabsolute banger -
it's got that stark, sinister minimalism of like early pinch or darkside jungle producers like intense or subnation. how this could sound so similar to house and yet SO GOOD is an absolute stroke of fucking genius if you ask me. it's almost like it is to bassline what dubstep was to grime or something. really fucks with that same energy.
there are loads others in there towards the end where it gets really dark and production heavy. big big mix.
">
couple of builders then BANG. dirty jackin bass. some actual filth creeping in towards the end (correct use of the word. very mucky).
too many highlights, but check out the darkside pressure on this aaaaabsolute banger -
it's got that stark, sinister minimalism of like early pinch or darkside jungle producers like intense or subnation. how this could sound so similar to house and yet SO GOOD is an absolute stroke of fucking genius if you ask me. it's almost like it is to bassline what dubstep was to grime or something. really fucks with that same energy.
there are loads others in there towards the end where it gets really dark and production heavy. big big mix.
I think the hats / drums are pretty similar in the two tracks you posted. but the samples and how they're used to create tension / progression are clearly different. Same could be said about "snapbacks and tattoos". it's more a production aesthetic / vibe thing isn't it??
Don't get me wrong, I do play tracks by dusty, bashmore etc. alongside a lot of the jackin I play. It's just the jackin gets much more love from the floor in my experience.
shiels
_
i've only been introduced to jackin from this thread, but scrolling through and then checking a lot of youtube certified jackin things this is exactly what i thought. I loved Zinc's crack house mixes, cheap thrill house shit that i see in the same line as switch stuff.. the mixes are bangin, even that busy p "respect and entertain" remix with pure woeful lyrics, try and not dance to that if you hear it out. fidget stuff liek fake blood and crookers didn't have enough groove and tension to keep me interested, wore thin pretty wuick. but jackin seems to have a bit more restraint? or slight hints of house 'classiness' alongside the mongness? do jackin people know/care about crack house, switch etc?
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
I'm sure some of em know about it, looking at Ill Phil's old SC when he was in Bass Weazal there was a few dj mixes with stuff like crookers, Jesse Rose and Switch on them (Bass Weazals own productions were pretty ace though, sort of like how Jackin is now with all the garage taken out). I can't be doing with most of that stuff myself, Jackin does a much better job to my ears.
Something like this for example seems to be on the cusp of turning into Jackin
This is what Ill Phil was djing 3 years ago
shiels
_
Same for me on that fake blood & crookers style of fidget, the odd tear out tune would hit the spot but as a scene it was a bit too trashy, lacked moodiness & atmosphere and wasn't that hot rhythmically. even switch'sbeats could be a bit tepid. it was exciting to see someone with the rhythmic finesse of zinc take it on. cheers for the links, gonna delve a bit deeper