Trump

[IdleRich]

Bush and Reagan among others were infinitely worse.

You're talking about presidenting, I'm talking about lying. And there is no question but that Trump was worse in this respect. He told big lies and small lies, really stupid lies about what we'd all seen him do the day before, really weird pointless about imaginary scouts who had said his speech ever. He just lied for the fun of it all the time - even when the truth was better for him he would make up some random lie that you could easily check, thing like "The queen of Russia says I'm the greatest golfer she's ever seen - and people would say "but there is no queen of Russia" and he would go "It's TDS again and anyway I never said that". Oh and he cheats at golf and lies about his wins etc
And Bush etc never did that.

 

[Leo]

a group of people -- in this case, presidents -- can each be horrible in their own ways, some acts being more horrible than others. trying to subvert democracy by overturning the vote of the people is different from war in Iraq, but still very horrible in its own way.

 

[linebaugh]

You could argue the consequences of Reagans lies re: iran and libyia out weigh those of trumps.

 

[Leo]

You could argue the consequences of Reagans lies re: iran and libyia out weigh those of trumps.

this seems to be along the lines of what luka often says, that yes trump is a corrupt lying sack of shit but what actual damage did he do, what were the consequences of his actions?

 

[version]

I don't think we'll know how bad Trump was for a while.

 

[IdleRich]

You could argue the consequences of Reagans lies re: iran and libyia out weigh those of trumps.

But I'm saying something quite specific here. I'm not talking about which president was worse, or who did the most damage or what the consequences of their actions were, I' m just saying that Trump lied all the time and made it normal. Now you might say that someone, for eg Bush, told the truth when he didn't need to lie so that could make his lies more effective and damaging and that might be true. But I'm talking about how Trump certainly didn't do that, he wasn't capable of that, he just lied unnecessarily all the time, self-destructively at times, pointlessly. And that has spread across America and the world (it was there before but he accelerated it a lot) and now there is an enormous swathe of people who just think that you pick what you want to be true and shout it loudly and that's what truth is. And I really fucking hate that. It devalues everything and it creeps into every walk of life.

 

[pattycakes_]

I don't think we'll know how bad Trump was for a while.

It's pretty clear. He was an out of control buffoon. He didn't know what he was doing half the time. Fulled by spite and momentum. As long as he keeps talking. As long as he doesn't show hesitation. He knew that's all was needed. Plus ticking the boxes of the right voting blocks. Yes he stirred the pot and drove divisions but those wounds will heal. For most thinking peoples, him plus corona have in fact inspired us to be more vigilant and think more critically. Sooner or later this moment in time will prove to have been develolpmentally important. Real growth often hurts. Biden on the other hand is more likely to be a return to the old ways. Don't be fooled by the token gestures.

 

[version]

It's clear he was bad, but we don't yet know how bad. We might find some decision he made sets off a chain of events somewhere down the line which makes him look even worse.

 

[luka]

That's true plus he might have done some secret stuff that won't come out till later like maybe killed some nuns

 

[pattycakes_]

It's clear he was bad, but we don't yet know how bad. We might find some decision he made sets off a chain of events somewhere down the line which makes him look even worse.

Mr Tea territory.

 

[luka]

I do think Trump was really really really bad and it was a scary four years. But I also think there's been some much more evil ones in recent history.

 

[IdleRich]

It's pretty clear. He was an out of control buffoon. He didn't know what he was doing half the time. Fulled by spite and momentum. As long as he keeps talking. As long as he doesn't show hesitation. He knew that's all was needed. Plus ticking the boxes of the right voting blocks. Yes he stirred the pot and drove divisions but those wounds will heal. For most thinking peoples, him plus corona have in fact inspired us to be more vigilant and think more critically. Sooner or later this moment in time will prove to have been develolpmentally important. Real growth often hurts. Biden on the other hand is more likely to be a return to the old ways. Don't be fooled by the token gestures.

I think a few people have pointed out that the actual damage he could do was limited by his lack of focus and general incompetence. So most of his damage came from incitement, lying, normalising fraud and using the presidential office to sell beans etc He didn't really introduce that many devastatingly harmful policies cos he barely had any policies and most of those he did have he failed to action. He put racist controls on muslims travelling but some of those were blocked at the time and I think that they can be undone relatively easily, yeah he passed tax cuts for the rich which was hardly a surprise, he failed to do much about Obamacare - "nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated" - he didn't build the wall, he left the Paris agreement and the WHO but the US is already making moves to rejoin etc there's the supreme court judges, but any GOP president would have put in right-wingers of course, now it's up to the Dems to see if they can do anything about that.
In fact that healthcare quote could be generalised, I think he thought that being president was just a question of saying "Hey, make healthcare good" and it would work out, and anything he couldn't just wave a wand and sort out like that was of no interest to him.

 

[luka]

Encouraging bad behaviour in the plebs and in other politicians and world leaders was one of the worst things.

 

[Leo]

trump himself was a disinterested, unaccomplished buffoon but he appointed evil motherfuckers to key positions and let them do evil shit while he golfed and tweeted. Mike Pompeo, for example.

 

[IdleRich]

Two pro-Trump lawyers are now going to court in Texas to get the judge to change how the US works. They want Biden and Harris - the illegitimate usurpers - to have to ask the permission of some "stewards" before they do anything like use Air Force One and they want the stewards to control the nuclear football and so on. Look at the precedent they're using for their argument - once again I am completely dumbfounded.

 

[IdleRich]

trump himself was an disinterested, unaccomplished buffoon but he appointed evil motherfuckers to key positions and let them do evil shit while he golfed and tweeted. Mike Pompeo, for example.

A lot of his appointees were incompetent though, they had no experience in the relevant fields and were basically there to grift as much as they could before they went to prison.

 

[linebaugh]

Which

 

[IdleRich]

Well, there are countless.... just pick a department and look for the Trump appointees, nine times out of ten they have never worked in that field, or they have never worked in government, many of never worked either in that field or in government. They normally got the job cos they are mates with Trump or they donated money. I've just spent ten seconds and found four for you but it's just the tip of the iceberg.

In Iceland, a nation so safe its president runs errands on a bicycle, United States Ambassador Jeffery Ross Gunter has left locals aghast with his request to hire armed bodyguards.
Gunter has also enraged legislators by casually and groundlessly hitching Iceland to President Donald Trump‘s controversial “China virus” label for the coronavirus.
Not particularly diplomatic? Well, Gunter is hardly a diplomat by training. He is a dermatologist. But he is also a contributor to Trump’s campaign, and that landed him the post in Reykjavik.

The official overseeing federal housing programs in New York, as well as billions of dollars in taxpayer funds, is none other than the Trump family’s longtime event planner, Lynne Patton. She faced early criticism over her general lack of experience, as well as how she lists her unfinished time in law school on her resume. At a glance of her resume, her most substantive executive experience was serving as Vice President of the board of the Eric Trump Foundation, a charity that reportedly funneled $1.2 million dollars into the Trump Organization.

President-elect Donald Trump shocked many observers when he tapped Betsy DeVos to head the Department of Education.
DeVos quickly accepted the nomination, which continues a trend that officials involved in previous transition teams say is concerning because, like many of Trump’s other early picks, she has no previous experience in government.

Dr. Ben Carson. ― Trump’s preferred choice to head the Department of Housing and Urban Development ― has no identifiable expertise in housing policy. And he’s never served in government, let alone atop a federal agency

But the list goes on and on.

 

[linebaugh]

Which

weird, dont know remember posting this, must have been the slip of the thumb. not doubting trump's dishonesty rich

 

[IdleRich]

Ah well, no worries, never a bad thing for me to double-check that what I'm saying is right.