Trump

luka

luka

Well-known member
our collective ability to predict and forecast is equivalent to our ability to make decisions

is something of a fudge here in that its reasonable to assume the response to Trump affects Trumps behaviour
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
and the hysteria was at least in part a strategy to mobilise support and action #theresistance
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
the presidency certainly didnt turn out as bad as predicted though when what was predicted in some quarters was a glitzy thousand year Trump-branded reich
 
sus

sus

Moderator
You're right, I'm not sure how much credit I'd give le resistance in thwarting the pres's potency, given his own incompetence was the primary force responsible, but the effect wasn't zero.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Do you not think, Gus, that the impact of the election of a man who openly courted the support of the militant far right and has a history of personal racism and a long string of sexual assault allegations behind him might have not have felt as threatening to a non-immigrant, non-Muslim, non-Jewish, straight, white guy as it did to some others?

You're concentrating very much on what Trump actually did while he was in office, rather than on what he stood for (and stood against).
 
sus

sus

Moderator
There are parallels with the "exaggerate disempowerment to usher in revolution" tactic, right? People's representation of reality isn't neutral, it's strategic and rhetorical
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
im not sure what the various players in that administration might have wanted there, given a free hand. in some cases eg Bannon, it was maybe unprecedented.-ish? not that i know anything about american political history naturally. i cant read.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
Mr. Tea said:
Do you not think, Gus, that the impact of the election of a man who openly courted the support of the militant far right and has a history of personal racism and a long string of sexual assault allegations behind him might have not have felt as threatening to a non-immigrant, non-Muslim, non-Jewish, straight, white guy as it did to some others?

You're concentrating very much on what Trump actually did while he was in office, rather than on what he stood for (and stood against).
Click to expand...
I don't necessarily disagree, this is perfectly unimpeachable in the abstract, but 1) part of the reason he would feel threatening to these types was because of his coverage by the media, i.e. if you represent reality you're responsible for the mental health of people who internalize your representation; 2) Latino votes for Trump were a huge part of his 2020 turnout; 3) partisan affiliation is a way way higher predictor of "feeling threatened by Trump" than being a minority immigrant, ie white liberals were hysterical while black conservatives trolled for lols. And 4) This isn't what our conversation about, it's about the actual policies not about his rhetoric.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
luka said:
yup
Click to expand...
The problem is that part of the strategy and rhetoric is insisting til your dying breath that your representation is neutral and honest, denying even to yourself that your assessment is motivated and political. Even the people spreading the hysteria think they're accurately mapping reality. The conscious is a memetic host for subconscious tribalism.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
In conflict, if your enemy speaks, you would be better off not listening to him. Any message he sends, that you receive, is a strategic victory on his part. Putin's support led to a legion of liberals saying "but Putin supports him, so he's clearly colluding!" You think that was coincidental? You think Putin is that stupid, to just straightforwardly show support and agreement? The guy was friggin KGB.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
suspended said:
The problem is that part of the strategy and rhetoric is insisting til your dying breath that your representation is neutral and honest, denying even to yourself that your assessment is motivated and political. Even the people spreading the hysteria think they're accurately mapping reality. The conscious is a memetic host for subconscious tribalism.
Click to expand...
a problem for the strategy or a problem for like, society or something?

suspended said:
Mr Tea I beat you so bad last time, you rearing for another whooping or what?
Click to expand...
hes the first level boss you should be setting your sights on taking down, i dunno, Padraig?
 
  • Love
Reactions: sus
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
luka said:
the presidency certainly didnt turn out as bad as predicted though when what was predicted in some quarters was a glitzy thousand year Trump-branded reich
Click to expand...
Seemed pretty fucking bad to me... and he had a crack at the reich thing, dunno how near he got, but the fact that he had a stab at being eternal dictator and completely destroying the idea of American democracy is enough on its own to get a bit worked up I think.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
suspended said:
In conflict, if your enemy speaks, you would be better off not listening to him. Any message he sends, that you receive, is a strategic victory on his part. Putin's support led to a legion of liberals saying "but Putin supports him, so he's clearly colluding!" You think that was coincidental? You think Putin is that stupid, to just straightforwardly show support and agreement? The guy was friggin KGB.
Click to expand...
Most likely a triple bluff
 
Leo

Leo

Well-known member
suspended said:
I'm not. I lived it. Anyone in blue, coastal America lived it. I saw it happen in uni classes. I heard it from friends in other unis' classes. I heard it at frat parties, and from 60y/o professors. It wasn't "MSNBC"; I saw it on every major news platform every day. I heard it from my parents. I heard it from my parents friends, and my grandparents.

The forecasts were bleak and apocalyptic; words like "historically unprecedented" and "le resistance" were bandied around; people had mental health breakdowns; again, New York felt like the day after a terror attack. That was the mood, everywhere. I noted this mood, and then saw friends note it, and then saw it written about in media op-eds. I will not let us paper over this: our collective ability to predict and forecast is equivalent to our ability to make decisions.
Click to expand...

I'm obviously dense because i still don't understand you're point. re-read my post, I never implied people weren't upset and troubled, I clearly stated they were. no one is denying they were. liberal twitter, which I imagine is a big overlap with all your uni friends/classmates/professors, dwelled upon it but the lots of others were upset by his behavior as well.

so what are we talking about, again?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top