Keir Starmer

[Mr. Tea]

But it is the duty of oppositional parties to educate the public about what is happening. They have not done this.

Arguably, yes, and this is part of a pattern that goes back to the last time Labour was in power, and Brown was on the back foot under claims by the then opposition that the 2008 global crash was had been caused by too many libraries in Wolverhampton. Miliband, Corbyn, Starmer - they've all, over one major issue or another, pulled their punches.

Conversely, why is it so obvious to me what's going on, but not to this guy? There's something much deeper, psychologically, than a simple lack of information going on. Saying that someone needs to be told "The Tories have fucked the country sideways for over a decade" isn't an abstract fact that someone should need to be told, any more than you need to look on the internet to see what the weather is doing where you live, right now. It's our lived reality. Probably much more so for people in Hartlepool than for me, in fact.

 

[Mr. Tea]

 

[version]

The commentary and analysis I see online just seems so futile too. I don't get the impression the journalists and talking heads have any idea what they're talking about. You've got one side claiming the election results are proof if Labour leans to the right they'll lose and another claiming they're proof if Labour leans to the left they'll lose. It's like reading the same text with a couple of altered terms.

This stuff about Labour losing touch with the working class (no idea who that even refers to at this point... ) does my head in too. I saw something yesterday about someone from Labour saying they need to stop patronising them and win them back, but how long have they been saying that for? It's like those people forever saying "We need to have serious conversations about... " but never actually having whatever those conversations are supposed to be, just continually saying they need to be had.

 

[Mr. Tea]

The commentary and analysis I see online just seems so futile too. I don't get the impression the journalists and talking heads have any idea what they're talking about. You've got one side claiming the election results are proof if Labour leans to the right they'll lose and another claiming they're proof if Labour leans to the left they'll lose. It's like reading the same text with a couple of altered terms.

This stuff about Labour losing touch with the working class (no idea who that even refers to at this point... ) does my head in too. I saw something yesterday about someone from Labour saying they need to stop patronising them and win them back, but how long have they been saying that for? It's like those people forever saying "We need to have serious conversations about... " but never actually having whatever those conversations are supposed to be, just continually saying they need to be had.

Are you saying we need to have a serious conversation about people earnestly insisting that we need to have serious conversations about things?

 

[john eden]

It's not for me to provide Labour with a way out, to be honest, but I think a key thing is precisely to ignore the online commentariat and to get out into communities and be present when there isn't an election happening.

Like when I was door knocking for a small independent political party some years ago - one guy told us that he'd lived on the same estate for 15 years and we were the first people who'd ever knocked on his door and asked him what he thought about it. There were about 10 of us and we came within 90 votes of winning a council seat.

 

[boxedjoy]

this idea that people consume their news media passively and uncritically is so strange to me. Everyone has opinions!

 

[version]

this idea that people consume their news media passively and uncritically is so strange to me. Everyone has opinions!

If that was the case then clickbait wouldn't work.

 

[john eden]

If that was the case then clickbait wouldn't work.

Well there is more than one thing happening, is the point.

 

[boxedjoy]

that thing that is happening will SHOCK you. Especially point number five!

 

[version]

I find it incredibly disheartening to think people are consuming news and media critically yet a publication like The Daily Mail remains as popular as it is.

 

[Mr. Tea]

This stuff about Labour losing touch with the working class (no idea who that even refers to at this point... ) does my head in too.

This is an absolutely key point. It's ridiculous that these narratives about who votes for what party will still call someone "middle class" if they went to university and do a job that involves sitting at a computer, even if they're renting a poky room in a cramped shared house and live basically hand-to-mouth, while someone else is still "working class" despite being retired on a good company pension and owning a house worth half a million quid that they bought for two-and-six off the government in the 80s, just because they were once a factory foreman (or the wife thereof).

 

[version]

Sometimes get the impression "working class" just means "has a Northern accent" to the media.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Sometimes get the impression "working class" just means "has a Northern accent" to the media.

Southern scientists discover some Northerners not working class

SCIENTISTS from the south east have been surprised to learn that not everyone in the North is working class.

www.thedailymash.co.uk

 

[craner]

Apart from over-estimating the prospects of the Greens, which happens to myopic pollsters every now and then, this article is like having a bucket of clear, icy water dumped over your Labour-loyal head:

The deep roots of Labour's red wall decline

Polling expert PETER KELLNER on the long term factors behind the party's decline, and what might help reverse it

www.theneweuropean.co.uk

Although it doesn't really go far enough in spelling out Labour's doom, which I think is not only to do with class demographics but is also cultural, relating as much to the myths, symbols and political liturgy of the party itself which, from the perspective of outside voters looking in, simply reinforces its anachronistic status. This is another topic, though.

Also, somehow, Keller's closing passage is meant to offer a chink of light, but when I read it all I could feel was the tombstone dropping into place and all the light being extinguished:

He might just do by developing a brave and credible programme for the country’s future. Like a successful entrepreneur, he should start by getting the product right. When he’s done that, he can worry about how to sell it to his different target voters.

 

[craner]

View attachment 7193

Look at McDonnell!

 

[IdleRich]

You've got one side claiming the election results are proof if Labour leans to the right they'll lose and another claiming they're proof if Labour leans to the left they'll lose.

The worst thing is they're both right.

 

[Mr. Tea]

He has, thank God, attacked these awful plans for mandatory voter ID. I guess when it comes to it, it'll be down to how many Tory MPs actually value the principles of liberty they're always banging on about over the possibility of an easy voter suppression win that'll obviously benefit their party. I don't have high hopes, obviously.

 

[IdleRich]

Proud brexiter Alan from Redcar, called LBC to say that Keir Starmer cared more about the Palestinians than working class communities in the North & Midlands. When asked why he thought that? "It's well known he climbed the Israeli embassy, to hoist the Palestine flag on the wall"

I'd have thought that was a bit tricky to pull off.

 

[DannyL]

That's actually true and I hope this detractors on this board will now leave the poor man alone

 

[Mr. Tea]

And did Corbyn ever do that? I think not!