rave era as recapitulation of the sixties

[thirdform]

They did.

replace records for thousands of gigs across four decades, never played the same tune the same way, never repeated a set-list (allegedly), invented PA rigs that defined how clarity & volume of sound could be optimised which most sound systems since have been based around & were gracious enough to let the taping of concerts carry on allowing the music to reach parts others couldn't (or wouldn't).

feel like this is a revisionist take. for starters it excludes a huge amount of DiY caribbean sound systems, not only in Kingston but in ldn at blues parties.

 

[thirdform]

Again, you project a very narrow world view on to a world far broader & varied than you allow in. Chris Liberator & all his kind are guilty of appalling crimes against culture, but you don't have a genuine handle on the free party world, unless this is troll humour about differences between smoking areas (lol what) & rolling out stock 2nd-hand witness definitions of political stances are a "thing".

Good music, under the stars, with a decent rig & an open crowd who can roll with expecting the unexpected. It's as simple as that. DiY, Weatherall, Tonka when they were ON, Smokescreen to some extent, Lazy House, all manner of shindigs around Berkshire just to get a blast of zoned House on a Sunday afternoon. There are worse addictions. Even some of the tekno folks more than proved their true character - Desert Storm, Keith (rip) mainly, for what they did in the Balkans as a caveat simply for the balls to get on with it (disregarding what they played, just not my groove) & the Subhead party in a dry-docked submarine (demented).

as sufis say the actor must teach the teacher. of course its troll humour, of course there were many good free parties, i don't doubt (though forgive me I only started going out in the 00s) by which point it was all goatrance, midrangey jump up and tekno.

The uglyfunk/warlock/jerome hill nights were where i got my tastes solidified so I'm obviously joking somewhat. my point though was more directly this oh it is not as good as the old days yawnfest, look what we've lost. but there was an inevitable continuity of much early 90s trancey free party music into liberator.

just like the ratio/jay denham/rob hood end of hard pounding funky minimal techno had an inevitable continuity into dull user and primate records. not the fault of those producers, it was just that someone was logically gonna do it.

something that really doesn't have an inevitable (as in avoidable) continuity is jump up dnb from 94 jungle. why it happened it is anyone's guess but it didn't have to happen. whereas techstep absolutely did.

 

[WashYourHands]

Uglyfunk? Small world, do you know Esther Ofei, Ibi Alfa or touched on any BWPT sets? Je5, Mark Hawkins (who's now making House against all his techno purisms)?

The point was line-relay, dispersion & Owsley, how sound is spread over distance as well as arc, plus the Wall of Sound. If your eyesight holds up, this is one of the better jpgs with the stack info along the bottom. Check those vertical bass bins to cover distance & waveform

View attachment 3133

 

[thirdform]

Uglyfunk? Small world, do you know Esther Ofei, Ibi Alfa or touched on any BWPT sets? Je5, Mark Hawkins (who's now making House against all his techno purisms)?

The point was line-relay, dispersion & Owsley, how sound is spread over distance as well as arc, plus the Wall of Sound. If your eyesight holds up, this is one of the better jpgs with the stack info along the bottom. Check those vertical bass bins to cover distance & waveform

View attachment 3133

yes, I know all of those folk, though none in person. not managed to stumble across any BWPT sets but have quite a load of mark hawkins ones if you're interested?

 

[thirdform]

Uglyfunk? Small world, do you know Esther Ofei, Ibi Alfa or touched on any BWPT sets? Je5, Mark Hawkins (who's now making House against all his techno purisms)?

The point was line-relay, dispersion & Owsley, how sound is spread over distance as well as arc, plus the Wall of Sound. If your eyesight holds up, this is one of the better jpgs with the stack info along the bottom. Check those vertical bass bins to cover distance & waveform

View attachment 3133

I have no eyesight chief. none at all.

 

[version]

[nowadays] i'm less interested in the dionysan aspects of it. more the "out" dynamic - out and up. away from the lower plane.

not really interested in the whole drug/dance aspect of it. that was just the icing on the cake i reckon. people decided they were going wild. i went to plenty of raves without taking pills. the whole atmosphere was the true high. people sweating. heaving. blowing whistles.

i think if it happens it will happen like luke hinted at it the dematerialisation thread. without drugs in all likelihood. people discovering they are "insane" - floating high. not grounded.

self-isolation is the same as sensory deprivation. the precondition to that journey out. to that extent it could well be the catalyst.

You can see this trying to fight its way out in the bell ringing and clanging and whooping for the NHS. Everyone looking up and down the street, smiling and laughing at everyone else doing it, being spurred on.

 

[Woebot]

as it happens the Eighties in alternative rock involved a whole series of recapitulations of the Sixties

part 20 Year Rule of Revivalism, and part a reaction against Eighties politics, Thatcher-Reagan's own attempt to roll back the gains of the Sixties, vilification of that era

different phases or aspects of the Sixties (the Byrds, the Velvets, Carnaby Street, sometimes as focused as on a single specific year

e.g. Sonic Youth and Loop's obsession with 1969, "when the trip turned dark"

(incidentally i think 'darkside' is a component already of the sixties, it wasn't all flower power and tripping in the park, it could also be about delirium and orgiastic sonic violence, heaviness, going right out there, leaving your consciousness in tatters etc)

some of the Sixties-into-Eighties moves were more acute than others e.g. Blue Orchids, Meat Puppets

others really lame (a whole Carnaby Street, clothes-oriented revival based on bands with names like the Mood Six)

but yeah maybe all of that helped to put the Sixties on the agenda

e.g. The Shamen transitioning quickly from being Electric Prunes copyists to i dunno Marshall Jefferson wannabes

or Primal Scream's journey

this is very true.

i remember the whole scally stone roses thing being obsessed with the byrds. i met a mancunian dealer who hung out with us in st germain in paris in 1990. wore paisley shirts and moon spectacles. gruff working class bloke. toking and doing tabs. into the whole mondays acid house scene and weird old uk psychedelia.

not fashionable to remember (or indeed i dont remember them being much good) but the inspiral carpets baggy thing too. my pal pascal gabriel fresh from s'express was their producer. nu-hippy vibes.

and as you mention primal scream's rebirth is along this same trajectory. i picked up screamadelica the other day on cd. nice things about that - proto big beat really innit.

 

[Woebot]

I have no eyesight chief. none at all.

thirdform - its a picture of the dead's wall of sound - listen to this video where they talk about it

 

[WashYourHands]

yes, I know all of those folk, though none in person. not managed to stumble across any BWPT sets but have quite a load of mark hawkins ones if you're interested?

No worries. He was an old site head, shared a gaff for a short period. Memories of him stooped over an ancient akai mpc, hitting drum patterns in, night upon night. This is his alias discogs

https://www.discogs.com/artist/2920917-Marquis-Hawkes?sort=year,asc&limit=500&page=1

Haven’t really listened to his material since the DJAX Up Beats gear, bloke could play a mean, unique set of techno though. Rave era maturing into ploddy House? Possibly.

 

[pattycakes_]

Not saying everything they did was savant, but they’re the band from that period I associate most with dance, even if the below aren’t the best representation of that. Inter Avinit, just different.

...

Nice one, chief. So the dance side was more about actually being at the gigs? Last night I remembered a bunch of the Dead (along with a boat load of other 60s heavy hitters) played on what's probably my fave hippy era rock album - David Crosby's If I Could Only Remember My Name. A tasty, laid back but very groovy californian sunshine acid thing going on on that one. Some lovely moody instrumental sections where you get a taste of them slightly letting loose and showing their improv chops. Understated but potent. There's also 2 recordings of Crosby playing live with members of the Dead as David and the Dorks where they stretch out a bunch of the If I Could Only.. tunes into ~10min jams which is also worth a listen if you haven't already. Probably best to come at your links with that stuff in mind. Cheers

 

[thirdform]

No worries. He was an old site head, shared a gaff for a short period. Memories of him stooped over an ancient akai mpc, hitting drum patterns in, night upon night. This is his alias discogs

https://www.discogs.com/artist/2920917-Marquis-Hawkes?sort=year,asc&limit=500&page=1

Haven’t really listened to his material since the DJAX Up Beats gear, bloke could play a mean, unique set of techno though. Rave era maturing into ploddy House? Possibly.

eh it does the job. I'm appy with him making classic chi styled tracks. it's not where my head is at at the moment but got a lot of respect for the lad. and if I do dj I might pick some of his newer stuff up, a lot of this stuff is so dependent on alchemical sourcery for me. I'm all about the groove, but when its improper.

correct,, he used to throw down some of the best techno sets in the country.

this one hits it for me as an all time fav:

1. Marco Bernadi “Mystery Of Nazerus (Mark August Stripped Beat It Bonus Mix)” (Clone)
2. Cristan Vogel “What is this” (Primevil)
3. Lenk “Mystic (Cristian Vogel mix)” (Planet rhythm)
4. D-Knox “Heart Chakra” (Magic Trax)
5. Claude Young “Pattern Buffer 8: Dear 1″ (Djax Up Beats)
6. The Advent “It One Jah (Surgeon remix)” (Internal)
7. Julia Decay “The Karoo” (Scandinavia)
8. Surgeon “Krautrock” (Tresor)
9. Surgeon “Floorshow Part II - A2″ (Counterbalance)
10.Paul Langley “Take it Bitch” (Morpheus Productions)
11.James T Cotton “The Dancing Box” (Spectral)
12.Jay Denham “Downsize” (Drought)
13.Random XS “Frantic Formula” (Djax Up Beats)
14.Surgeon “Floorshow Pt I - A” (Counterbalance)
15.Max Hardcore “Next Time” (B-Rave)
16. Audion “Titty****” (Spectral)
17.Tobias Schmidt “Marry and reproduce” (Sativae)
18.DJ Leeon “Amateur Pervert - B1″ (Syncopate)
19.DJ Misjah “Flawless Perversity” (Missile)
20.TSR “Hyper-disco-dancer” (Hoerspielmusik)
21.Ian Pooley & the Jaguar “Two space cowboys on a bad trip - B2″ (Force Inc)
22.DJ Hyperactive “Venus (Remix)” (Missile)
23.Hardfloor “Strikeout (Surgeon Remix)” (Harthouse)
24.Jay Denham “Wasteland” (Cloned Vinyl)
25. Blackman “Fear of my own brother” (Black Nation)
26.DJ Rush “Maniac” (Djax Up Beats)
27.DJ Rush “Let’s change” (Pro-Jex)
28.DJ Rush “Control Yourself” (Djax Up Beats)
29.Paul Damage “Tina never had a teddy bear (Surgeon remix)” (HOG)
30.Tobias Schmidt “Der Fangarm” (Feinwerk)
31.Ruben Andersen “Wheel Attack” (Pro-Jex)
32.DJ Mem “Is your ticket” (Nasty Colour)
33.Michael Forshaw “Knocked up funk rush” (Chan’n'mikes)
34.Co-fusion “ATP” (Sublime)
35.Subhead “Swishima” (Subhead)
36.Jamie Lidell “Pan Jam” (Sativae)
37.Bill Youngman “Diminishing Brain” (Tresor)
38.Ibrahim Alfa “The Pursuit of happiness” (Mosquito)
39.Justin Berkovi “End up smiling” (Sativae)
40.Joey Beltram “Floaters” (Tresor)
41.Ibrahim Alfa “He Kills Coppers” (Neue Heimat)
42.The Destroyaz “Double bag it” (Input-Output inc.)
43.Mike Dearborn “Birds on E” (Djax Up Beats)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zfhyhfeav475p6b/SFS 01 - Mark Hawkins - Mix 27-10-09.mp3?dl=0

 

[version]

"I just saw the Doors movie. Jim Morrison just tried to break on through to the other side too fast, thinking that all you had to do was take more and more acid. When you can’t break through anymore, when you bounce off it, you become resentful and turn to death. You won’t find that world of purity that you were expecting, and now you become resentful and turn against yourself, turn suicidal. Deleuze and Guattari call it a black hole. You enter the wrong attractor. The 60’s were extremely destratifying, and yet, because they thought they were going to achieve everything within the 60’s – and what they wanted was not achievable, period – fringes of this motion went into the wrong track. Then you have the Weathermen, completely pathetic terrorists blowing themselves up. That’s that impatience and resentment that Deleuze and Guattari warn about."

https://techgnosis.com/de-landa-destratified/

 

[luka]

Yeah, that's what me and third used to bicker about. I used to say you can take too much, you can't just do more and keep getting results. It doesn't work. And he used to say bollocks, take more do more, there's no limit. Journey beyond psychosis

 

[luka]

He doesn't believe in the zone of fruitless intensification. For me there's a built in limit you have to respect

 

[HMGovt’s Glorious Return!]

yes, I know all of those folk, though none in person. not managed to stumble across any BWPT sets but have quite a load of mark hawkins ones if you're interested?

My younger brother was in the BWPT orbit, putting on parties in the Midlands mid-90s. site denizen. Had a mate called muffin. He also used to go to die hard in Leicester a lot too, dougal's dungeon.

I fed him a lot of music but first time I heard jungle was some Randall tape he gave to me when I was back home from university.

 

[version]

Yeah, that's what me and third used to bicker about. I used to say you can take too much, you can't just do more and keep getting results. It doesn't work. And he used to say bollocks, take more do more, there's no limit. Journey beyond psychosis

I'm with you on that one. You can't force or rush it. It's like trying to lift weights that are too heavy for you.

 

[luka]

And when you do fall into the dark side it can take literally years to clamber out. The stakes are very very high.

 

[version]

There's a bit in that section of the DeLanda interview about the Nazis which is interesting too,

Deleuze and Guattari emphasize over and over that once you take the route of destratification, there’s an inherent danger that it will turn fantastic, that it will turn against itself. For them, certain aspects of Nazism were very destratified – for instance, Nazi tactics. That’s why they beat the shit out of everyone. And yet there was this smell of death there – the holocaust. They were destratifying themselves, but they bounced off the wall and restratifed themselves in a much more gross, evil, and resentful way, lacking joy in the worst way.

 

[luka]

Yeah, but we know all this from personal experience and self experimentation. We don't need a book botherer to tell us. That's why dissensus is good.

 

[luka]

We've all done it all. Highs and the lows and the emergency mental health workers lol