Decline

C

catalog

Well-known member
i was always told that being really pissed is a definite bad look with K - i reckon it was just a pinch.
 
C

catalog

Well-known member
IdleRich said:
Of course any global standard has to include prejudices and a brutal flattening out... but that's (sort of) what universal means. Were you talking about Borges? Funes the Memorious when he creates his own number system of completely unique numbers and it's great but it's totally insane cos no-one else can use it. Yes prejudice is built into everything... there is no neutral... and yet, I'd like to be able to find what I want and I'm glad someone tried.
Like with the mercator projection (speaking of flattening out) - and people think it's racist cos it makes the African countries look small or whatever... but it's just the way to do it if you want to navigate using latitude and longitude. It kinda grates with me when people get on that one.
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i've not read that borges story, or at least haven't recently. i agree that any system will have its prejudices and it's perhaps a dead-end/nonproductive argument to argue the 'woke' or 'cancel' way I have presented. So let's put that to one side.

I was also trying to corroborate your and @suspendedreason's points about milton and pascal, about being able to know everything. Cos that is also the basis of the Dewey project.

The larger point, or more useful one to consider in terms of this thread, is that I think our current moment of 'decline' is challenging that idea of a 'Universal' somewhat?

Like those enlightenment ideals are really creaking now?
 
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C

catalog

Well-known member
suspendedreason said:
Yes, this is the argument against structure that the pro-flux queer demo pushes. Nelson's Argonauts epitomizes it.

Yes, systems have bias, because a system reflects an ontology, and ontologies reside, in part, in the eyes of the observer. "In part" because there are structural distinctions and real, formal patterns in nature—there's a meaningful difference between a plant and an animal that will get picked up cross-culturally—but at the same time, people taxonomize to fulfill pragmatic purposes, based on their own subjective understandings of the world. The system is an instrument based on an understanding of the problem-space, which is partly cultural.

This goes for language too, or binomial nomenclatures (speciation—which, any biologist will tell you, is basically constructed, rather than inherent). This goes for anything really, it's an inescapable law, it's definitional to what classification is. (Enter postmodernism.)

But the alternative to systems, as @IdleRich points out, is (obviously) no system. And "no system" is a really bad place to be. No basis for curation. No ability to classify or organize. No ability to speak or communicate! Nada, zilch, it's all out. The only real option is to improve on the system or suggest an alternative.

On alternative to seeing the system as constraining is to see it as enabling. Yes, it's imperfect, but it's far better than pure chaos, which is only "unbiased" so far as its "precognized."

I can get behind the idea of making library taxonomies more local, less standardized, so it can be adapted to the purpose at hand. (Note that many specialty, research and archival libraries already do this.) But note that comes with a tradeoff: they'll be less accessible to outsiders. C'est la vie—tailoring for locals is hostile to foreigners, another inescapable law.
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well it's all about achieving that Aristotelian balance innit. But yes, i take your point and like I've said to Rich, it's probably a pointless argument for me to make within this thread. But there's a wider issue...
 
sufi

sufi

lala
this is gonna be the last xmas people in uk can afford anything from outside uk, i fear

realisation how brexit is gonna fuck things right up is beginning to bite (speaking personally - Rich has been on about this for ages, but in uk there's a sort of rabbit headlights denial that may be just wearing off). the decline might turn out to be quite sudden and not at all abstract or hypothetical :(
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
yyaldrin said:
you mean products from outside the uk will get very expensive?
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Well pound will devalue further I guess but also extra taxes may apply (Captain Kirk already stopped selling to UK for that reason) and tariffs etc And then reduction in choice so less competition equals higher prices.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Food in particular is going to get more expensive, partly because of increased taxes on imported food and the devalued pound, partly because farmers are going to find it harder to hire/retain foreign farm workers, and partly because the new subsidies they'll be getting from the government are only 75% of what they currently get from the EU. I'm sure if push came to shove we could all do without Polish bison-grass vodka and Serrano ham, but if the price of very basic foods goes up too, then people who are already struggling are going to be completely fucked.

I heard about a recent survey showing that just over half of respondents now think Brexit was a mistake (can't believe it's not higher than that), and under 40% still think it should happen. The whole thing is just so fucking depressing.
 
sufi

sufi

lala
IdleRich said:
Well pound will devalue further I guess but also extra taxes may apply (Captain Kirk already stopped selling to UK for that reason) and tariffs etc And then reduction in choice so less competition equals higher prices.
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doing business with this bog country is not gonna be worth the effort
 
sufi

sufi

lala
IdleRich said:
Well pound will devalue further I guess but also extra taxes may apply (Captain Kirk already stopped selling to UK for that reason) and tariffs etc And then reduction in choice so less competition equals higher prices.
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and the pound is gonna collapse
i'm considering converting my meagre savings into lego
 
sufi

sufi

lala
Tea's child may never know the excitement of smashing to pieces the new model his dada spent hours assembling
 
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