Listen to this you knobheads

[pattycakes_]

Grime is better than sheen

 

[luka]

That's basically all jungle then cos it was made using sampling technology and not analog synths. A distinct aesthetic choice.

This is a weird argument I don't understand at all

 

[WashYourHands]

There’s patina and there’s patuna.

 

[luka]

Suboptimal and/or obsolete aesthetics itself becomes an artistic move. Not sure how widely thats used in the kind of hauntological sense Fisher was getting at.

You had it with the 'lo-fi' stuff in the '90s. And Fisher talks about it relation to the 'hauntology' which was really something he invented and has no musical merit

 

[luka]

What like autotune

I don't think that's designed to to add a patina of the past and the sense of a materiality we've since jettisoned

 

[constant escape]

I'm not in the fucking mood to talk about fucking Fisher.

No problem, it was tangential anyway. The crackle was my point.

edit: regarding materiality as @luka puts it, which I didn't consider. Like a simulation of materiality. Not sure how that impacts the experience though.

 

[luka]

It's more like a series of fairground mirrors that distort our reflection in all sorts of fun and hilarious ways

 

[constant escape]

Does that mean its largely just a gimmick, to be enjoyed at face value and then forgotten, or is it used in more serious ways?

 

[luka]

Serious fun. Play, as the most serious business in the world. Ludic universe, God playing God playing God playing

 

[thirdform]

This is a weird argument I don't understand at all

You don't cos you're technologically illiterate, and trying to make an argument about tech.

 

[luka]

You don't cos you're technologically illiterate, and trying to make an argument about tech.

Tech is for nerds.

 

[constant escape]

Serious fun. Play, as the most serious business in the world. Ludic universe, God playing God playing God playing

Sure, I see your point there. I guess I was asking more whether or not it is used artfully, which needn't be serious I suppose.

 

[luka]

You have a field of play and you are within that field of play experimenting, trying this or that vocal tone seeing what really does something

 

[thirdform]

Tech is for nerds.

True, so why are you trying to pretend to be a nerd.

 

[luka]

A drug is the same. The first time you take a drug it's usually not that notable. You have to learn how to use it. How to operate within these parameters, with that set of altered possibilities

 

[thirdform]

It's precisely jungle's reliance on outdated technology (outdated music technology) which made it futuristic. That was an aesthetic choice, whether you want to say it was due to material constraints is another issue.

 

[shiels]

so are 808 glides both glass phalluses and enveloping wombs then

 

[luka]

I remember seeing art ensemble of Chicago, in a bit if a weird state and Roscoe Mitchell done some thing, hit some frequency that felt like it entered right into my brain and reconfigured it. A frequency that cut through all the cerebral muck. This is what the autotune often gives you. These frequencies that cut through in startling and dramatic ways

 

[constant escape]

And for all I know it could even literally be a matter of certain frequencies prompting this or that neurophysiological response, and not just a figurative thing.

 

[thirdform]

same with a lot of detroit techno as well, the dx7 was already outdated by 1988.

I agree with @mvuent that rawness vs cleanliness are always aesthetic choices.