The Republican War on Transgender People, Drag Queens, and Queerness in General

mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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padraig (u.s.) said:
it's been a long time since I've seen someone manage to shove that many stereotypes - based on the most cursory of "evidence" - into a single paragraph. manages to be deeply yet concisely offensive to both trans women and stereotypes of programmers, specifically related to the autism spectrum. impressive, in a sense.

idk if I even need to get into how ridiculous this is - some rando on Internet extrapolates people's internal mindsets and experience of self from briefly (and creepily) scoping their dating profiles. have you ever, yunno, try actually talking to any of these people? or any trans person? bc I, unlike you, know trans people, and specifically trans programmers, and their experiences are, unsurprisingly, hugely more varied and complex than your list of cliches.
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Of course you know trans programmers, that was my point.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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padraig (u.s.) said:
I already gave an age limit upthread, and "what's your age limit bro" is very obviously trying to produce some kind of gotcha moment, but whatever, I'll give it again

18 for GRS, 14-15 for other gender-affirming surgeries depending on the patient. Parental consent should be required, or if that is impossible (if for example parents are absent and/or abusive) some other legal guardian adult who isn't a medical professional involved in the treatment. As I also said upthread, any age limit - on any issue - will be to some degree arbitrary bc everyone matures emotionally/mentally at a different rate, but I'm fine with those.

also, "laying into Benny B over childhood surgery" is a complete misrepresentation of what happened. Benny refused point-blank to acknowledge that trans people have a right to exist. Benny takes - or used to, until he was challenged on it - every opportunity to post (generally made-up) TERF propaganda. gender-affirming care for minors was only one issue of many.
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I sense we are very much kindred spirits. My only point of disagreement qua age of surgery is on the age, which I would put at 18 for anything that involves incisions. I would also ban puberty blockers before 18.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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padraig (u.s.) said:
first off, GTFOH with "wannabe". you're a wannabe gatekeeper of gender-affirming care.

gay identity absolutely is not more, or less monolithic, than trans identity. anyone who knew anything about gay people would know that gay identity is diverse, sometimes fractious, and anything monolithic. a straight guy looking in at queer people is the last person who should be telling queer people about their identities.

you also fundamentally don't understand dysphoria. the idea that people would happily take a pill to feel like a cis man/woman is both ridiculous and offensive. your description of "conversion" is also wrong. you entirely ignore - unsurprisingly, bc you are quite ignorant (yet, in true toxic masculinity fashion, feel comfortably authoritatively proclaiming on) of queer people - the fluidity of both gender identity (i.e. non-binary, genderqueer, genderfluid, etc people) and sexuality. GRS as "conversion therapy" is a pure, and absurd, TERF/GC line, as well as also being offensive. actual conversion therapy is a terrible practice forced on gay people by religious fanatics; its equivalent is the kind of "exploratory therapy" proposed by GC ideologues like Stella O'Malley.

finally, why exactly are you browsing trans forums, and trying to clock them on dating sites? this is the kind of thing you see on Twitter all the time - (cis) people whose entire lives seem to revolve around obsessing over trans people. like, why are you obsessed with this particular issue (or this and anti-vax nonsense I guess)? for me it's life and death for loved ones and community. what's your deal? (not implying this either way here - I have no idea - but I'll note that this kind of obsession, unsurprisingly, often goes hand-in-hand with a closeted attraction to trans women, to the point that it's its own stereotype)
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You've got plenty of stereotypes there too, old chum. Yes, I agree that gay conversion therapy is bad because it doesn't accept the person for who they are, and, from your point of view, it feeds into conservative heteronormative ideology. But so does the trans conversion therapy that you are proselytise: it changes the person as they are so that their behaviour fits their sex/gender according to conservative norms.

You haven't said why one should privilege the mind over the body in the dysphoric 'mismatch'. Surely anything that resolves the dysphoria (if they want to fix the dysphoria) is equally acceptable, with processes that minimise drawbacks to be preferred.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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padraig (u.s.) said:
homosexuality was listed as a mental disorder in the DSM up until 1973. if you want to go back further, look up proposed disorders like sluggish schizophrenia and drapetomania. such things should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Progressives seem obsessed with the idea of transgender being gay mark II, with everything neatly lining up in a perfect analogy. But the main difference is that being gay presumably only engenders dysphoria through internalisation of psychological stress from societal feedback (hence no conversion of the person's essential being is necessary to resolve it). Whereas gender dysphoria is said, seemingly by everyone, to involve an essential dysphoria that is not societally caused. If gender dysphoria evolves to be analogous to homosexuality, solutions that involved changes to the body (rather than changes to the societal reception of 'non-conforming behaviours') will be deemed barbaric. So, you better hope that they don't turn out to be analogous!
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
mixed_biscuits said:
Of course you know trans programmers, that was my point.
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How can I simplify so this so that you'll understand it

You're wrong about trans people, you're wrong about programmers, and you're wrong about trans programmers. You're wrong about all those things both individually and in conjunction. The reason that you're wrong - besides your ludicrous (strongly) implied belief that you know more about the internality of trans peoole than trans people - is that your views of trans people, programmers, and trans programmers are all the shallowest of cliches.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
mixed_biscuits said:
I sense we are very much kindred spirits. My only point of disagreement qua age of surgery is on the age, which I would put at 18 for anything that involves incisions. I would also ban puberty blockers before 18.
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Telling people they can take puberty blockers after they've, yunno, gone thru puberty, is an absurdity. Just be honest and say your position is forcing teens - regardless of what they, their parents, or their doctors think is best - to suffer thru the puberty that you demand they suffer thru.

And we ain't kindred spirits, or any of that, in any way. There is no reaching accommodation over people's right to exist and suddenly we're all chums. There's a line in the sand here and you're either on one side or the other.
 
Clinamenic

Clinamenic

Binary & Tweed
Mr. Tea said:
I dunno. Was Andy Kaufman famous for being wrong about absolutely everything?
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He was an avant-garde comedian and he had a stint as an over-the-top villain in some televised wrestling league, where he would theatrically demean the audience with the hopes of riling them up, and thus warm them up to the protagonistic wrestlers who would then proceed to righteously demolish him.

Anyway, something like that - I might have some of the details wrong.
 
Clinamenic

Clinamenic

Binary & Tweed
Kaufman, to my knowledge, didn't make frequent rhetorical use of charts however, nor did he present as a guinea pig.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Kind of a general aside. Trans rights, reproductive rights, etc - people's right to bodily autonomy - is non-negotiable. I don't wish harm on anyone here, I'm not trying to silence you, but at the same time we ain't ever gonna be chums. I'm not going to pop over to another thread and discuss literature or whatever with you like everything's cool. If you don't clear this very minimal benchmark, I really don't give af about yr views on literature or music or art.

At the same time, know that any time you spout some transphobic etc bullshit, I will eventually be here to challenge it. I decided awhile ago that bigots never get a pass in any space where I have a presence. I can't cover the entire world, but in my little corners of it, this bullshit doesn't ever get a pass.

And, know that we're going to win. Know it in your heart, know it in your bones. Trans people will continue existing and looking back on the all the people sucked into this assault on them will be like looking back on ppl who supported apartheid in the 80s.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
shakahislop said:
when padraig shows up in here it's like stone cold steve austin running out and stunnering everyone. all the jobbers bouncing all over the floor
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Stone Cold's politics are surprisingly based, tho I can't fully endorse the comparison bc he's also an (alleged) serial domestic abuser
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
padraig (u.s.) said:
Telling people they can take puberty blockers after they've, yunno, gone thru puberty, is an absurdity. Just be honest and say your position is forcing teens - regardless of what they, their parents, or their doctors think is best - to suffer thru the puberty that you demand they suffer thru.

And we ain't kindred spirits, or any of that, in any way. There is no reaching accommodation over people's right to exist and suddenly we're all chums. There's a line in the sand here and you're either on one side or the other.
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Oh, don't be bashful dear old Padrage. This 'right to exist' thing is just weird. What you mean is 'right to undergo under-researched, irreversible, incomplete medical procedures that do violence to undeveloped young bodies'. I don't understand why you agitate for such early interference when the potential gain is still only a tiny fraction of the remaining life span.

There are many children who dislike the idea and/or reality of going through puberty at all. Should they also take puberty blockers in line with their preferences?
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Sidenote: where the fuck were all these "it's all a Big Pharma conspiracy bro" people when the Sacklers were single-handedly kickstarting the American opioid epidemic (yunno, an actual conspiracy)? Too busy creating a moral panic about vaccines causing autism to notice, I guess
 
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