The Republican War on Transgender People, Drag Queens, and Queerness in General

[maxi]

Part of the problem here is that the vast, vast majority of services for victims of domestic abuse are intended only for use by cis women. If you're worried about trans women and/or cis men using services where they'll be in the same space as cis women, then presumably a better answer would be an expansion of such services to recognise that anyone, whether male or female, cis or trans, gay or straight, could be a victim of this kind of abuse and might need help.

exactly, there should be an expansion of the services. specific support for trans victims of abuse for example. rather than lumping both women and transwomen in the same space. because that's an area where sex obviously is significant

 

[Mr. Tea]

no one is saying that, you misunderstand me entirely. there's no association drawn whatsoever. I'm just trying to illustrate what a safeguarding measure is by using another example of one, to show that they are in place to protect against the worst case scenario, not the most likely scenario

So you just happened to choose an example that's to do with paedophiles?

 

[maxi]

So you just happened to choose an example that's to do with paedophiles?

yes. I didn't even consider the association because one thing has nothing to do with the other. they're both just safeguarding measures. and the background checks for schools is uncontroversial so it's a good example

 

[maxi]

I mean they are both about sexual assault though. but the point is, it's not about protecting from the dangers of trans people, it's about the dangers of men towards women.

until now we've had women-only spaces right? and no one has said that their existence is a character reference for all men, have they? the fact that we have women-only spaces doesn't mean that we think all men are predatory does it? so why the same response about transwomen

 

[maxi]

ever wonder why there isn't any conflict between transmen and men, like there is between transwomen and women? if this is all about transphobia.

 

[phil.]

Having a Pedo POTUS and a fancy new flag has given you lot some right funny notions.
... open your heart to Trump.

Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery by Landon Thomas Jr. for New York Mag October 28, 2002

“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” Trump booms from a speakerphone. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”

I haven’t really been following [the Ghislane Maxwell trial] too much. I just wish her well, frankly. I’ve met her numerous times over the years, especially since I lived in Palm Beach, and I guess they lived in Palm Beach,” the president continued, referring to the Florida town where his Mar-a-Lago resort is and where Mr. Epstein had a home. “But I wish her well, whatever it is.”

 

[subvert47]

ever wonder why there isn't any conflict between transmen and men, like there is between transwomen and women? if this is all about transphobia.

ever wonder why you've never shown any concern for women in any other thread in any other context if this is not about transphobia

 

[maxi]

ever wonder why you've never shown any concern for women in any other thread in any other context if this is not about transphobia

to you the entirety of my being exists on dissensus. if it hasn't been posted about in a thread it must not exist. what would you know about my concerns

 

[phil.]

to you the entirety of my being exists on dissensus. if it hasn't been posted about in a thread it must not exist. what would you know about my concerns

“How dare you judge me solely by the things that I’ve said to you and in front of you!”

Do you hear yourself? Do you know how disingenuous that sounds?

 

[maxi]

“How dare you judge me solely by the things that I’ve said to you and in front of you!”

Do you hear yourself? Do you know how disingenuous that sounds?

it's not the things I've said he was criticising though is it, it was the things I haven't said. which apparently reveal my hidden motivations.

seems more like a way of avoiding addressing the things I've actually said. which is disingenuous.

 

[maxi]

the idea that because I haven't posted about something in some thread on a website that I must not care about it is mental

 

[Mr. Tea]

I mean they are both about sexual assault though. but the point is, it's not about protecting from the dangers of trans people, it's about the dangers of men towards women.

until now we've had women-only spaces right? and no one has said that their existence is a character reference for all men, have they? the fact that we have women-only spaces doesn't mean that we think all men are predatory does it? so why the same response about transwomen

You're not seriously suggesting violence is committed only by (cis) men and suffered only by (cis) women, are you? Rates of domestic violence are particularly high in lesbian couples, so "safeguarding women from men, some of whom might be pretending to be women themselves" is not really a great argument here.

 

[phil.]

it's not the things I've said he was criticising though is it, it was the things I haven't said. which apparently reveal my hidden motivations.

seems more like a way of avoiding addressing the things I've actually said. which is disingenuous.

 

[maxi]

You're not seriously suggesting violence is committed only men and suffered only by women, are you? Rates of domestic violence are particularly high in lesbian couples, so "safeguarding women from men, some of whom might be pretending to be women themselves" is not really a great argument here.

of course not 'only', I don't think I said anything to suggest that. but the vast majority of violence is committed by men yes, and women will always be more vulnerable to it for obvious reasons.

If you think there are no safeguarding measures needed and every space should be unisex then OK. I disagree and I don't think that's the way most people see it

what is the relevance of lesbian domestic violence to this? I don't see that. Are you suggesting that women are at risk of violence in women's only spaces to the same degree that they are in unisex spaces? Because that's clearly false

if I argued like the trans rights activists I'd leap on you now for being homophobic by casting lesbians as particularly violent. but I don't

 

[maxi]

nice one phil

 

[maxi]

very ingenuous

 

[mixed_biscuits]

also, as always, the claim that transphobes are motivated by care for children or the supposed sexualization of children rather than yunno, transphobia, is revealed as total bullshit by the fact that they are totally silent about the rampant sexualization of children in things like child beauty pageants etc, and surgeries done on intersex infants and children which, unlike gender-affirming care, are totally nonconsensual

things which, you may notice, reinforce rather than challenge the gender binary

That's a whole lot of mind-reading you have there, Padrage. Get yourself over to Mumsnet and tell them what they are really thinking with your sloppy analogies. The below is entirely typical; why not do one of your scattergun takedowns on that.

Trans Child | Mumsnet

I just need some advice and support on here. My 15 year old daughter (I don't know if she's still that??) has literally just come out as trans this m...

www.mumsnet.com

 

[mixed_biscuits]

See upthread. Ireland, New Zealand, Finland, Denmark, Argentina, Malta, etc all have self-ID. None have experienced a wave of sexual assault. It's a bullshit scare tactic.

Evidence?

 

[mixed_biscuits]

oh actually, one last thing

breast enhancement surgery for cis teenagers is 26 times* as common as gender-affirming surgery of all kinds for trans minors. 26 times! Feel free to look it up.

cis minors get elective gender-affirming surgery - also including rhinoplasty, male breast reduction, etc - all the time.

again, not a single solitary peep out of "we shouldn't listen to minors/they can't consent to gender-affirming care" crowd

it's not about protecting children, it's just about policing trans bodies

*overall, not per capita, before someone goes there. point still stands.

So you are saying you are in favour of all that stuff as well?!

Or are you against all that stuff with the surgery you like being the unprincipled exception?

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Whose privacy and dignity is being compromised here, though? Nobody's advocating getting rid of bathroom stalls. Are women really so fragile that the mere thought of using the toilet a few metres away from a trans woman is existentially distressing, even though neither person can see the other?

Have you actually spent any time in a women's toilet? I've been in trendy bars' unisex toilets and they are worse.