I think most people agree that white people can actively support anti-racism and pro-blackness. It is incredibly sophomoric to say that, if a white man ended the racist system of mass incarceration, then his act would not count as an action supportive of black power just because he's white.
Two things here:
- Black Power is not the same as anti-racism or pro-blackness. I have never argued that white people can't be anti-racist, only that their actions can't constitute Black Power.
- I was not saying that the actions of white people can't be "supportive of Black Power", I'm saying that white people can't
do black power.
This is the core of my argument here—that there's a substantial difference between support—whether theoretical or material—and claims of membership. In my conception, what matters is the support—whether someone is or is not doing beneficial work in the world. What
Your claim that white men can do nothing to help marginalized cultures is again, a non starter.
This is not what I have claimed. Let's check the record:
None of this should be construed to say that men can't support feminists or feminism.
I have to ask—why is malelesbian unable to understand that I am differentiating membership and identity from helping people?
I bring this up specifically because "malelesbian" has continually shown a desire to produce his identity out of the social position of the feminine, and to co-opt the legitimacy of feminist movements towards his own sense of self. I think that's a little sus, if he's going to keep identifying as a straight, cisgender man!
But there's a deeper question: can men do feminism among other men? You say no, since you deny that men can do feminism at all.
I say that a man can support feminist ideas and projects among other men. It is strange and confounding that this is not enough for you, and that they must also be given an identity label as well.
and what do you do to combat the manosphere? Again, having good relationships with women does nothing to take away power from the culture of misogyny that dominates most of the internet and hip hop.
I feel constantly in this conversation like I am engaging with the Gish Gallop. I'm forced to regularly make decisions like "should I double down on my original points until they make it through this man's thick skull, or should I point out how cartoonishly racist it is to say, unsolicited, that hip hop is dominated by a culture of misogyny." And—I disagree. Gender segregation is everywhere it shows up a way to enforce misogyny; having good relationships with women is the opposite of this.
And finally, the tour de force:
The fact that you think that calling oneself a feminist is just a "little merit badge" shows that you have no interest in feminism. If you are a real feminist, then feminism is a part of your lifestyle and worldview. "Feminist" is not an honorific I use to praise myself. It describes the fact that I really do express my feminine side and encourage others to do the same. You only think I'm using feminism to celebrate myself because you're only interested in what you like, not feminism. If you were a real feminist you would know that being a feminist is just a part of who you are.
This paragraph feels like the final boss of the malelesbian copypasta. I would like to remind that I am not claiming to be a feminist—I in fact think neither of us are capable of satisfying the role. So with that in mind…
The phrase "If you were a real feminist you would know that being a feminist is just a part of who you are." is an incredible one, because it encapsulates the worldview: "feminism" is a kind of unquantifiable essence, that by claiming the identity of, will spontaneously change the world. This is the "little merit badge" I'm referring to. I am in fact interested in feminism—I just think that constructing my identity around it would be a kind of narcissistic seizure of a concept that belongs to other people.
"If you are a real feminist, then feminism is part of your lifestyle and worldview." Here it is again—lifestyle, you're once again reducing feminism to a kind of consumer ready-to-wear identity, an off-the-shelf positioning that gives you the ability to gatekeep. Your self-proclaimed feminism is, in practice, a cudgel that you use to establish your own credibility.
And yet—with all that thunder, all that noise—the sole contribution you name, your great act in support of women, the very truth of what makes you a feminist—is to "
express yourself," or in other words,
to perform an identity. This is exactly what I have been accusing you of—wanting a little merit badge, and not actually engaging in any actions that improve the lives of women except in the most speculative, circuitous, and ineffective ways.