Ah, I see we're playing detective today! But, you know, if Chat-GPT's got the wit and wisdom, why not give credit where credit's due? Besides, outsourcing thoughts can be like ordering takeaway, sometimes it's just easier and tastier, not to mention requiring much less feminine domestic and emotional labour. Let's spice up the conversation and sprinkle some humor on top (hard as it may be) shall we?
The Feminine Perspective against the Manosphere
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Ah, I see we're playing detective today! But, you know, if Chat-GPT's got the wit and wisdom, why not give credit where credit's due? Besides, outsourcing thoughts can be like ordering takeaway, sometimes it's just easier and tastier, not to mention requiring much less feminine domestic and emotional labour. Let's spice up the conversation and sprinkle some humor on top (hard as it may be) shall we?
0bleak
Well-known member
"So men need to reengage with their femininity since they are already masculine. We need to regain touch with feminine qualities the patriarchy tells us to destroy before we can achieve balance." - are you prescribing this for men in general, or not, because I'm kind of getting confused because it seems that sometimes you think all men should be more feminine, and other times it's only for the men that want to.
My question, where I asked "Since, in my overwhelming experience, being feminine/doing something feminine/etc. significantly limits the number of women that are attracted to men, why would men be interested in "regaining touch with feminine qualities"? is from you assuming that you're prescribing that for men in general.
My question, where I asked "Since, in my overwhelming experience, being feminine/doing something feminine/etc. significantly limits the number of women that are attracted to men, why would men be interested in "regaining touch with feminine qualities"? is from you assuming that you're prescribing that for men in general.
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
I'm not prescribing it for men in general, only for men who want to act feminine. The point is not that all men should be male lesbians but that all men have something to learn from male lesbians.
shakahislop
Well-known member
0bleak
Well-known member
They have something to learn as in be more feminine?
As in don't be like them.
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
No they have something to learn in that acting feminine is an option available to them that they can use to mitigate their toxic masculinity and improve their relationships with women. Femboy feminism is a toolkit, like a pallette of paints that men can use to benefit themselves. But they don't have to use these tools if they don't want to. The point is that the patriarchy tells men femininity isn't even an option and they have no choice but to act masculine.
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
No, no trads have something POSITIVE to learn from male lesbians. Trads who pay attention will learn that, if they want to, they can benefit themselves by performing feminine behaviors.
0bleak
Well-known member
I'm still getting confused as to whether you are saying that being more feminine would be better for men in general, or just those who want to be because this:
Seem to be saying that men, in general, are toxic and need to improve their relationships with women, and that can only be done by being more feminine.
Seem to be saying that men, in general, are toxic and need to improve their relationships with women, and that can only be done by being more feminine.
This sounds as sinister as the 'Red Pill' stuff. Very cynical.
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
Some men exhibit toxic masculinity or need to improve their relationships with women. There are many ways to this, but acting feminine is only one. Men who don't have these two problems with women don't need to use the tools of femboy feminism to solve these problems. But all men can benefit from the femboy feminist message that everyone should promote cultural gender equality. To do this, trads don't have to ACT more feminine they just have to LEARN about the feminine culture the patriarchy hides from us.
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
Huh? Why? It's sinister and cynical to improve your relationship? Refraining from performing toxically masculine behaviors is a bad thing to you? You would rather we live in a world where everyone acts like femininity simply can't exist independent of masculinity, where femininity is always treated as inferior? That's on you and the Red Pillers.
ghost
Well-known member
The willingness of men to engage in the Hokey Pokey holds significant structural importance within the feminist movement. This dance, often perceived as trivial, symbolizes a challenge to traditional masculinity, which typically valorizes stoicism and gravity (Connell, 1995; Kimmel, 2004). Feminist scholars argue that redefining masculinity is essential for dismantling patriarchal structures that perpetuate gender inequality (Butler, 1990; Messner, 1997). By participating in the Hokey Pokey, men demonstrate a departure from restrictive gender norms, thereby aligning with feminist objectives of subverting gender stereotypes (West & Zimmerman, 1987; Lorber, 1994).
Moreover, the collaborative nature of the Hokey Pokey embodies feminist ideals of collective action and solidarity (Hooks, 2000; Mohanty, 2003). Feminism advocates for building inclusive communities that challenge oppressive systems (Collins, 2000; Crenshaw, 1991). Through this dance, men can express their support for a movement that emphasizes equality and inclusivity, actively participating in feminist practices rather than merely observing (Harding, 1987; Fraser, 1989).
Furthermore, the vulnerability required to participate in the Hokey Pokey mirrors the openness necessary for discussions about privilege and systemic inequality (Butler, 2004; Brown, 2012). Engaging in self-reflection and confronting one's own biases is a critical aspect of feminist work (Alcoff, 1988; Haraway, 1988). By willingly performing this dance, men symbolize their readiness to engage in these crucial conversations, advancing feminist goals of challenging normative structures and promoting social justice (Young, 1990; Foucault, 1978).
In contrast, the Cha Cha Slide, another popular dance, can be seen as antithetical to feminist principles. Unlike the Hokey Pokey, the Cha Cha Slide is characterized by a series of commands that dictate the movements of participants (Smith, 2005; Johnson, 2007). This hierarchical structure, where one voice commands and others follow, mirrors traditional power dynamics that feminism seeks to dismantle (Davis, 1983; Beauvoir, 1949). The dance reinforces the notion of a singular authority figure, which is antithetical to the feminist ideal of collective and democratic decision-making (Gilligan, 1982; Frye, 1983).
Moreover, the Cha Cha Slide lacks the element of vulnerability present in the Hokey Pokey. The structured and prescriptive nature of the dance leaves little room for individual expression or the display of vulnerability (Adams, 1990; Benjamin, 1998). This absence contrasts sharply with feminist values that emphasize the importance of vulnerability in challenging oppressive structures and fostering genuine connections (Noddings, 1984; Held, 1993).
Additionally, the Cha Cha Slide's emphasis on uniformity and conformity can be seen as reinforcing societal norms that restrict individuality and diversity (Foucault, 1975; Bordo, 1993). Feminism, on the other hand, celebrates diversity and encourages the questioning of norms that limit personal freedom and expression (Anzaldúa, 1987; hooks, 1994). The dance's focus on following specific steps in unison runs counter to the feminist ethos of embracing difference and challenging the status quo (Lugones, 1987; Spivak, 1988).
In conclusion, while the Hokey Pokey aligns with feminist principles by challenging traditional masculinity, promoting collective action, and encouraging vulnerability, the Cha Cha Slide represents a departure from these ideals. Its hierarchical structure, lack of vulnerability, and emphasis on conformity are antithetical to the feminist project of dismantling oppressive systems and celebrating diversity. As such, the Cha Cha Slide can be seen as a dance that is fundamentally at odds with feminist values.
References
Moreover, the collaborative nature of the Hokey Pokey embodies feminist ideals of collective action and solidarity (Hooks, 2000; Mohanty, 2003). Feminism advocates for building inclusive communities that challenge oppressive systems (Collins, 2000; Crenshaw, 1991). Through this dance, men can express their support for a movement that emphasizes equality and inclusivity, actively participating in feminist practices rather than merely observing (Harding, 1987; Fraser, 1989).
Furthermore, the vulnerability required to participate in the Hokey Pokey mirrors the openness necessary for discussions about privilege and systemic inequality (Butler, 2004; Brown, 2012). Engaging in self-reflection and confronting one's own biases is a critical aspect of feminist work (Alcoff, 1988; Haraway, 1988). By willingly performing this dance, men symbolize their readiness to engage in these crucial conversations, advancing feminist goals of challenging normative structures and promoting social justice (Young, 1990; Foucault, 1978).
In contrast, the Cha Cha Slide, another popular dance, can be seen as antithetical to feminist principles. Unlike the Hokey Pokey, the Cha Cha Slide is characterized by a series of commands that dictate the movements of participants (Smith, 2005; Johnson, 2007). This hierarchical structure, where one voice commands and others follow, mirrors traditional power dynamics that feminism seeks to dismantle (Davis, 1983; Beauvoir, 1949). The dance reinforces the notion of a singular authority figure, which is antithetical to the feminist ideal of collective and democratic decision-making (Gilligan, 1982; Frye, 1983).
Moreover, the Cha Cha Slide lacks the element of vulnerability present in the Hokey Pokey. The structured and prescriptive nature of the dance leaves little room for individual expression or the display of vulnerability (Adams, 1990; Benjamin, 1998). This absence contrasts sharply with feminist values that emphasize the importance of vulnerability in challenging oppressive structures and fostering genuine connections (Noddings, 1984; Held, 1993).
Additionally, the Cha Cha Slide's emphasis on uniformity and conformity can be seen as reinforcing societal norms that restrict individuality and diversity (Foucault, 1975; Bordo, 1993). Feminism, on the other hand, celebrates diversity and encourages the questioning of norms that limit personal freedom and expression (Anzaldúa, 1987; hooks, 1994). The dance's focus on following specific steps in unison runs counter to the feminist ethos of embracing difference and challenging the status quo (Lugones, 1987; Spivak, 1988).
In conclusion, while the Hokey Pokey aligns with feminist principles by challenging traditional masculinity, promoting collective action, and encouraging vulnerability, the Cha Cha Slide represents a departure from these ideals. Its hierarchical structure, lack of vulnerability, and emphasis on conformity are antithetical to the feminist project of dismantling oppressive systems and celebrating diversity. As such, the Cha Cha Slide can be seen as a dance that is fundamentally at odds with feminist values.
References
- Adams, M. (1990). The Well-Tempered Self: Citizenship, Culture, and the Postmodern Subject. Johns Hopkins University Press.
- Alcoff, L. (1988). Cultural Feminism versus Post-Structuralism: The Identity Crisis in Feminist Theory. Signs, 13(3), 405-436.
- Anzaldúa, G. (1987). Borderlands/La Frontera: The New Mestiza. Aunt Lute Books.
- Beauvoir, S. de (1949). The Second Sex. Vintage Books.
- Benjamin, J. (1998). Shadow of the Other: Intersubjectivity and Gender in Psychoanalysis. Routledge.
- Bordo, S. (1993). Unbearable Weight: Feminism, Western Culture, and the Body. University of California Press.
- Brown, B. (2012). Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead. Gotham Books.
- Butler, J. (1990). Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity. New York: Routledge.
- Butler, J. (2004). Undoing Gender. New York: Routledge.
- Collins, P.H. (2000). Black Feminist Thought: Knowledge, Consciousness, and the Politics of Empowerment. Routledge.
- Connell, R.W. (1995). Masculinities. Berkeley: University of California Press.
- Crenshaw, K. (1991). Mapping the Margins: Intersectionality, Identity Politics, and Violence against Women of Color. Stanford Law Review, 43(6), 1241-1299.
- Davis, A. (1983). Women, Race, & Class. Vintage Books.
- Foucault, M. (1975). Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison. Vintage Books.
- Foucault, M. (1978). The History of Sexuality, Volume 1: An Introduction. Pantheon Books.
- Fraser, N. (1989). Unruly Practices: Power, Discourse, and Gender in Contemporary Social Theory. University of Minnesota Press.
- Frye, M. (1983). The Politics of Reality: Essays in Feminist Theory. Crossing Press.
- Gilligan, C. (1982). In a Different Voice: Psychological Theory and Women's Development. Harvard University Press.
- Harding, S. (1987). Feminism and Methodology: Social Science Issues. Indiana University Press.
- Haraway, D. (1988). Situated Knowledges: The Science Question in Feminism and the Privilege of Partial Perspective. Feminist Studies, 14(3), 575-599.
- Held, V. (1993). Feminist Morality: Transforming Culture, Society, and Politics. University of Chicago Press.
- hooks, b. (1994). Teaching to Transgress: Education as the Practice of Freedom. Routledge.
- Hooks, B. (2000). Feminism is for Everybody: Passionate Politics. Cambridge, MA: South End Press.
- Johnson, M. (2007). The Body in the Mind: The Bodily Basis of Meaning, Imagination, and Reason. University of Chicago Press.
- Kimmel, M. (2004). The Gender of Desire: Essays on Male Sexuality. SUNY Press.
- Lorber, J. (1994). Paradoxes of Gender. Yale University Press.
- Lugones, M. (1987). Playfulness, "World"-Travelling, and Loving Perception. Hypatia, 2(2), 3-19.
- Messner, M.A. (1997). Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements. University of California Press.
- Mohanty, C.T. (2003). Feminism without Borders: Decolonizing Theory, Practicing Solidarity. Duke University Press.
- Noddings, N. (1984). Caring: A Feminine Approach to Ethics and Moral Education. University of California Press.
- Smith, B. (2005). Dancing the Cha Cha Cha: A Beginner's Guide. Dance Publishing.
- Spivak, G.C. (1988). In Other Worlds: Essays in Cultural Politics. Routledge.
- West, C., & Zimmerman, D.H. (1987). Doing Gender. Gender & Society, 1(2), 125-151.
- Young, I.M. (1990). Justice and the Politics of Difference. Princeton University Press.
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
I never said trads should PRETEND to act feminine. They should act authentically feminine to treat their partners better and mitigate their toxic masculinity. Everyone has a feminine side. Trads try to repress their feminine side and they often suffer for it. That's all I'm saying.
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
One day, you'll be funny. Keep trying! But chat-gpt will never do you work for you, nor will it ever be funny. Maybe you'd be funnier if you actually read any of the texts Chat GPT cited in this post? Also men and women have always performed the Cha-Cha Slide and the Hokey Pokey. The patriarchy never tried to prevent men from doing the hokey pokey like the patriarchy explicitly prevent men from expressing their emotions. Be legit dude. You honestly told me "read another book", what audacity. You haven't even read one book.
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
Feminine culture is just the culture of helping others, altruistic culture. The patriarchy hides it from us by promoting the pursuit of self-interest at the expense of literally everything else, even the environment we destroy through pollution. Feminine culture is also pluralistic culture. There are many different ways to be feminine, while the patriarchy says there is only one way to be masculine and that is by selfishly amassing power and possessions for yourself.