The sacred cows

[don_quixote]

can i say ian hislop? what a sneering, condescending little twerp, sitting his ivory tower and firing arrows. i like a lot of private eye, but he shouldn't, for example, ever be invited onto question time. to some extent paul merton too. those direct line adverts are unforgivable.

the office was just meh for me. armando iannucci is a don.

 

[CrowleyHead]

Bill Hicks.

As much as I love him, this is true...

Here's something weird though. Carlin, sacred cow. Lenny Bruce, sacred cow. Pryor... Sacred cow, but do you think ANYONE could criticize him?

 

[matt b]

can i say ian hislop? what a sneering, condescending little twerp, sitting his ivory tower and firing arrows. i like a lot of private eye, but he shouldn't, for example, ever be invited onto question time. to some extent paul merton too. those direct line adverts are unforgivable.

the office was just meh for me. armando iannucci is a don.

The problem is that Private Eye is the single most important publication produced in the UK and Hislop is fairly upfront about his position in the firmament, which makes reading the bias he has easy.

He needs the layer of seperation that print provides to be effective, but he can, on occassion, prick politico's bubbles on QT pretty easily. That he is on such programmes at all says more about the depressing nature of political debate in the UK (re: dissenting voices) than it does about him.

Merton- agreed.
Iannucchi- agreed

 

[Leo]

The American Office is a study in why British people are funnier.

yes, but...the US "office" is an incredibly spot-on portrait of most white-collar offices in the states. i've worked with people exactly like their characters, and they aren't all that exaggerated.

 

[CrowleyHead]

yes, but...the US "office" is an incredibly spot-on portrait of most white-collar offices in the states. i've worked with people exactly like their characters, and they aren't all that exaggerated.

The obvious exception being Dwight, mind you. Even though, I know about hundreds of "Dwights"...

 

[Sick Boy]

As much as I love him, this is true...

Here's something weird though. Carlin, sacred cow. Lenny Bruce, sacred cow. Pryor... Sacred cow, but do you think ANYONE could criticize him?

I challenge anyone to tell me why Lenny Bruce isn't deserving of every single word of praise he has been adorned with.

I will say this though: dying young is a surefire route to attaining sacred cow status.

 

[baboon2004]

Bill Hicks.

High five.

He's a great orator, but a shit comedian. I may have laughed once in an hour.

As to Pryor - from what i've seen, definitely over-rated. He's a'ite, but hardly deserving of demi-god status.

Sorry, but compared to, say, Peter Cook, these two are shown up for what they are - average. very good at oratory, less so at comedy. Mind you, i think that of most supposedly 'great' comedians.

 

[CrowleyHead]

? Pryor is a great comedian, it's hardly how he says anything...

I'm sorry, but just for "Dracula Vs. Wino", the man is the top of the bill.

Though I have to admit, I'm only helping along the whole 'sacred cow' thing.

 

[Corpsey]

I think Bill Hicks is hilarious - the way he says things, his facial expressions etc. He was a great stand up, deserving of his comic reputation. I don't really see how you could compare what he did to Peter Cook's comedy.

He is, I think, a sacred cow, but mainly because people take his pronouncements to be greatly truthful or prophetical - and I suppose he took them seriously himself.

 

[bassbeyondreason]

Should probably point out I do like Bill Hicks, but he definitely had his flaws (re-use of material, some borderline-homophobic stuff which is just boring and unpleasant) and his prophet/messiah status is pretty absurd. I did love Stewart Lee's (another sacred cow? to me anyway) sketch about him on Comedy Vehicle.

Funny you should mention dying young, cause I reckon George Carlin wouldn't be nearly so revered if he'd died before he hit 40.

 

[pattycakes_]

wasn't hicks' routine more of a perpetual work in progress though?

 

[evanbbb]

Funny you should mention dying young, cause I reckon George Carlin wouldn't be nearly so revered if he'd died before he hit 40.

It's more of dying at your peak then young. When his skit went to the supreme court he was 41. The '7 Dirty Words' skit and the case made him a legend. If he had died before the case, he wouldn't be as revered today. But he died after his rep was cemented.

 

[crackerjack]

wasn't hicks' routine more of a perpetual work in progress though?

he built it up, but he was still telling a lot of the same jokes at the end

I did love Stewart Lee's (another sacred cow? to me anyway) sketch about him on Comedy Vehicle

the "mice are faggot rats" joke is exactly the kinda thing Dennis Leary would say. It's a bit harsh judging a man by his imitators

 

[continuum]

Bill Hicks is def a sacred cow lol. Lenny Bruce was too ahead of his time.
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[mixed_biscuits]

Stewart Lee...another sacred cow? to me anyway

What I don't like about Stewart Lee and many others, especially the more political stand-ups, is the sense of smug complicity with their audience. People seem to enjoy it despite the fact that it takes half a minute to work out where they lie on the political spectrum and thereby predict each punchline (most of which are at the expense of easy, absent targets).

Better to challenge the audience to think twice and shift in their seats, adapt the material ad-hoc, piss them off a bit (Sadowitz?) OR not to be afraid to drop the pat subversion and unilateral confrontationalism and call a love-in a love-in (Peter Kay)

 

[continuum]

hindus and cows
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[pattycakes_]

What I don't like about Stewart Lee and many others, especially the more political stand-ups, is the sense of smug complicity with their audience.

v. true. he would be so much more enjoyable if he could drop that shit. tmwrnj was still the funniest morning show ever put on british tv though.

what about charlie brooker? is he rated highly enough to count as a sacred cow?

 

[zhao]

the kind of stuff bill hicks is mad at is the stuff i was mad at in highschool. christianity, right wingers, etc.

to be sure i'm still largely against all that stuff he rails about, it's just that he does it in a very highschool and boring boring boring way.

very much over rated for me.

have just heard a brilliant young comic though... haven't heard anyone that funny in a while. will get the name

 

[michael]

Just to pull back the reins to the thread starter...

...who are the artists who can do no wrong in the eyes of music journalists?

a tell tale sign is when every new album is hailed as 'a return to form':

I reckon Wilco is a great example of this. (If I do say so myself )

 

[luka]

i really like bill hicks. when i first saw him i got shivers down my spine. never had that experince before. it might not be terribly nuanced but thats hardly the point is it.
stewart lee is one of the worst comedians working in the uk and given that theres not a single good one thats really saying something.