The sacred cows
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
i get wrecked is one of my all time top party jams. tim dog isn't the greatest rapper out there but he has that raw energy that moves a party like nothing else... delivery is pretty much just as important as lyrical skill imo
was it i get wrecked or fuck compton that was voted tune of the year?
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
Scoff if you like, but I actually prefer Chronic 2001 to the first Dre album. That album was an absolute riot.
crackerjack
Well-known member
Now that we're on page 25.....has anyone pointed out that the only real sacred cow in music is the idea there are any sacred cows in music? It's all too subjective - and attracts way too many contrarians - for anyone to be above criticism. The more popular someone is, the more people hate them.
Probably been said a few ways.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
I'm not arguing Illmatic isn't better than Chronic... But at the same time, it was the difference between 'artwork' and a 'game-changer'. "Chronic" straight up punched NYC in the jaw, kicked them on the floor, and started going through their wallet while sitting on top of them.
And this is the son of a relentless NYC golden era purist. So believe me when I say that record REALLY pissed people off. My dad would actually get mad every time he had to hear Snoop on the radio or TV.
And this is the son of a relentless NYC golden era purist. So believe me when I say that record REALLY pissed people off. My dad would actually get mad every time he had to hear Snoop on the radio or TV.
don_quixote
Trent End
can we go off music? stephen fry - what a pompous, boring twat. yet he's somehow untouchable.
crackerjack
Well-known member
now there's a sacred cow - and rightly so. hands off
don_quixote
Trent End
i see your hands off and will respect that.
still can't stand him though.
still can't stand him though.
mistersloane
heavy heavy monster sound
I'm with crackerjack. I think he's hot.
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
If we are getting of music how about Mike Leigh? Done some good stuff and some poor stuff, sacred cow of British cinema and absolute cock in person.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
Bukowski's a sacred cow. He's like the friggin' Wiley of author/poets.
Doesn't keep me from loving him.
Doesn't keep me from loving him.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Scorsese/De Niro. True, I haven't seen everything they've done together, but only because I was TOO FUCKING BORED to. Raging Bull is one of the most overrated films in the universe. I fell asleep, and I'm not averse to boxing by any means.
I love The Departed (obv sans Bobby), I like Goodfellas a lot for Joe Pesci, and Scorsese films are technically great, but GOD the whole mythology around this kind of thing is boring.
I can't believe people rate the Sopranos either. It's, like, OK, but is that it? Very competent, and....what else?
Oh, and on a 90s tip, anyone who prefers Reservoir Dogs to Pulp Fiction is a bullshitter. Saw both back to back - only one of them sent me to sleep with its boring male fixations. And it didn't have Al Green on the soundtrack.
I love The Departed (obv sans Bobby), I like Goodfellas a lot for Joe Pesci, and Scorsese films are technically great, but GOD the whole mythology around this kind of thing is boring.
I can't believe people rate the Sopranos either. It's, like, OK, but is that it? Very competent, and....what else?
Oh, and on a 90s tip, anyone who prefers Reservoir Dogs to Pulp Fiction is a bullshitter. Saw both back to back - only one of them sent me to sleep with its boring male fixations. And it didn't have Al Green on the soundtrack.
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nomos
Administrator
Illmatic was definitely better than The Chronic. And 36 Chambers kicked both of their asses.
It was a bit of a joke at the time though. You knew Nas was getting his '5 Mic' Coronation from the Source no matter what, while the Snoop album (not that it holds a candle) was predestined to be rated almost as high. Yet there was a feeling that Illmatic had disappointed a bit (after the hype around Live at the BBQ and the Halftime 12") but no one had the nerve to say it. It's really a bit dull in spots. By his second album we were already slating him for falling off and getting lazy. It had clearly gone to his head.
It was a bit of a joke at the time though. You knew Nas was getting his '5 Mic' Coronation from the Source no matter what, while the Snoop album (not that it holds a candle) was predestined to be rated almost as high. Yet there was a feeling that Illmatic had disappointed a bit (after the hype around Live at the BBQ and the Halftime 12") but no one had the nerve to say it. It's really a bit dull in spots. By his second album we were already slating him for falling off and getting lazy. It had clearly gone to his head.
no there are of course many, many examples of near unanimous agreement among the public, sometimes cross audience groups, regarding certain works or artists.
and the only possible explanation of this is the fact that subjective "personal taste" plays only one part, and IMO a minor one, in the determination of quality - the other part being "objective" standards built upon shared experiences within a common culture.
and there are artists who are indeed, in all the ways that count, pretty much above criticism.
nomos
Administrator
continued...
The hype around Illmatic definitely had a lot to do with asserting what 'keeping it real' meant in New York hip-hop (sample based, no synths, and most importantly, New York themed and bred) at a time when LA, Atlanta and Miami were becoming serious threats to its dominance. The timing worked out well because there was about two years of hype behind Nas - people talking about 'the greatest MC ever/since Rakim' and getting really anxious for the album. It didn't take much convincing to get the album tagged as classic before it had even come out.
The hype around Illmatic definitely had a lot to do with asserting what 'keeping it real' meant in New York hip-hop (sample based, no synths, and most importantly, New York themed and bred) at a time when LA, Atlanta and Miami were becoming serious threats to its dominance. The timing worked out well because there was about two years of hype behind Nas - people talking about 'the greatest MC ever/since Rakim' and getting really anxious for the album. It didn't take much convincing to get the album tagged as classic before it had even come out.
