Fuck London

[bassnation]

Yep. And South London obviously.

nah, the south is the place that has heart. that hideous wasteland they call north london, now thats different.

lol

 

[bassnation]

I miss the self-absorption and small mindedness many Londoners display.

you'll find most of those people are just commuters from outside the city who think being in london gives them free reign to walk round in a self-absorbed bubble and generally act like cunts. the fact they don't live here makes them think its totally anonymous and standards of behaviour don't matter. they are wrong on both fronts and they stick out like sore thumbs.

 

[Slothrop]

It's kind of crazy when you think about it just how much of a different class london is in from other UK cities. It just feels like it's in a different category in terms of scale and structure from even the biggest other places. And it seems to have a different relationship to the space around it as well - it doesn't really feel like it has surrounding countryside the way that most places do...

 

[IdleRich]

Yes true, up to a point, but is that more the case with London than the capital in other countries? I mean, in Hungary, say, I think that Budapest has a larger proportion of the people and wealth etc than London does in the UK.

 

[baboon2004]

Hungary's much smaller though and historically B'pest gets much prestige from the larger entity of the Austro-Hungarian empire (in which, I presume, there were competing centres), no? Comapring to a country with similar population, does Paris lord in over France in the same way?

I'd say yes, probably*. As for countryside, London certainly has that, as much as New York or Paris for example! Kent, Surrey, Sussex etc are all incredibly verdant - you can take a train out of Victoria or Waterloo and be in the countryside in no time.

* and the reason Berlin or Rome don't have the same relationships to Germany and Italy, is surely due to the historical state structure of those countries, only unified in 1871/61. By contrast, London and Paris have grown into their roles over centuries, the gap between they and other cities widening with every century, I'd have guessed.

 

[scottdisco]

as it goes, Slothrop definitely has a great point imo. i don't doubt Rich about the Budapest/Hungary cleavage but, on the other hand, there are other countries where the cleavage isn't as stark as it is in the UK (or Ireland for that matter), where the capital and/or largest city (because, tbf, OTOH i am using Canada and the USA and Brazil as my examples, so i am not taking Ottawa or D.C. or Brasilia as an example, i'll take the largest in those cases, ie TO, NYC and SP) isn't that much ahead of lots of other large great cities they have, eg Vancouver and Montreal, or San Francisco and Chicago, or Rio and Salvador.

whereas in the UK, Edinburgh is certainly lovely, and the large provincial English cities are all good (Cardiff too), and Cambridge rocks etc etc etc but they're all a huge way behind London in terms of general grooviness. whereas, say, Boston is not much less buzzing than New York.

i see Baboon has made some excellent points, well said. also you're all using European examples which shows a good grasp of history. my Americas ones might be a bit redundant given the relative newness of all modern settlements there.

 

[IdleRich]

"and the reason Berlin or Rome don't have the same relationships to Germany and Italy, is surely due to the historical state structure of those countries, only unified in 1871/61. By contrast, London and Paris have grown into their roles over centuries, the gap between they and other cities widening with every century, I'd have guessed."

Yeah, I'd say that that's right.

"I'd say yes, probably*. As for countryside, London certainly has that, as much as New York or Paris for example! Kent, Surrey, Sussex etc are all incredibly verdant - you can take a train out of Victoria or Waterloo and be in the countryside in no time."

Quite hard to walk out from the centre to the countryside isn't it? I always plan to do that some time - just walk from London to, say, Oxford where my girlfriend lives, think it would be really weird going through the wastelands of North West London where it's all commercial parks and storage firms.
On the other hand London has absolutely loads of greenery inside it. Regents Park and Hyde Park are huge for example and there are loads of bits of park near me (Victoria Park, London Fields, Haggerston Park) giving it a feel, in some bits, as though the green bits surround the houses rather than the other way round.

 

[baboon2004]

as it goes, Slothrop definitely has a great point imo. i don't doubt Rich about the Budapest/Hungary cleavage but, on the other hand, there are other countries where the cleavage isn't as stark as it is in the UK (or Ireland for that matter), where the capital and/or largest city (because, tbf, OTOH i am using Canada and the USA and Brazil as my examples, so i am not taking Ottawa or D.C. or Brasilia as an example, i'll take the largest in those cases, ie TO, NYC and SP) isn't that much ahead of lots of other large great cities they have, eg Vancouver and Montreal, or San Francisco and Chicago, or Rio and Salvador.

whereas in the UK, Edinburgh is certainly lovely, and the large provincial English cities are all good (Cardiff too), and Cambridge rocks etc etc etc but they're all a huge way behind London in terms of general grooviness. whereas, say, Boston is not much less buzzing than New York.

i see Baboon has made some excellent points, well said. also you're all using European examples which shows a good grasp of history. my Americas ones might be a bit redundant given the relative newness of all modern settlements there.

Interesting points of comparison with the Americas though. I know nothing about Canada really....as to the US and Brazil, they seem to have developed along lines of state identification, allowing for different centres to emerge, perhaps?

Interesting to take Boston as an example though! I know quite a few people who really dislike it.

 

[baboon2004]

Quite hard to walk out from the centre to the countryside isn't it? I always plan to do that some time - just walk from London to, say, Oxford where my girlfriend lives, think it would be really weird going through the wastelands of North West London where it's all commercial parks and storage firms.
On the other hand London has absolutely loads of greenery inside it. Regents Park and Hyde Park are huge for example and there are loads of bits of park near me (Victoria Park, London Fields, Haggerston Park) giving it a feel, in some bits, as though the green bits surround the houses rather than the other way round.

But I don't know of any cities where that would be practicable (and there's miles of countryside between London and Oxford). Try walking from Paris to the Somme, for example, or in fact from the centre of Paris to anywhere outside the city, and the myth of Paris will be promptly exploded - you might begin to believe you're in n-w London.

Agree about London and green space. But Berlin seems to be incomparable in the amount of openness within the city - the emptiest capital city in the world, surely?

 

[scottdisco]

Interesting points of comparison with the Americas though. I know nothing about Canada really....as to the US and Brazil, they seem to have developed along lines of state identification, allowing for different centres to emerge, perhaps?

Interesting to take Boston as an example though! I know quite a few people who really dislike it.

great stuff, you've nailed it w the centre/diffuse regions w their own identity cleavage, which you mentioned earlier. so countries that grew up more cohesively, eg France or Britain, have this starker contrast between their centre and peripheries*, whereas as you said, Germany or Italy, it's a bit different. Milan rocks just as much as Rome, and Berlin has Munich, Cologne, Hamburg etc keeping it on its toes.

i'm not saying this is an iron law, but i bet it's probably a tendency.

*w all due respect to Marseille, Leeds etc

 

[bassnation]

On the other hand London has absolutely loads of greenery inside it. Regents Park and Hyde Park are huge for example and there are loads of bits of park near me (Victoria Park, London Fields, Haggerston Park) giving it a feel, in some bits, as though the green bits surround the houses rather than the other way round.

south london is even greener - crystal palace, brockwell park, norwood park, clapham common.... the list goes on. there is also sydenham wood which is the last remaining chunk of one of londons oldest forests, the great north wood that once stretched from deptford to selhurst.

 

[scottdisco]

i love how you can be in Brockwell Park and then a very short time later in the centre of Brixton or playing footy in Peckham or at the gallery in Dulwich, it's a top area round there, or out to Greenwich or what have you

 

[bassnation]

my favourite feature of brockwell park is the lido, affectionately known as the "brixton beach". possibly the only open air swimming pool where the smell of skunk in the air is omnipresent.

 

[simon silverdollar]

south london is even greener - crystal palace, brockwell park, norwood park, clapham common.... the list goes on. there is also sydenham wood which is the last remaining chunk of one of londons oldest forests, the great north wood that once stretched from deptford to selhurst.

sydenham wood is lovely, one of my favourite places in london. and the hugeness of wimbledon common of course - i really like that the fact that there's big patches of untamed nature in the middle of the city. even bits of Hyde park feel a bit wild, rather than typically park-like.

 

[bassnation]

sydenham wood is lovely, one of my favourite places in london. and the hugeness of wimbledon common of course - i really like that the fact that there's big patches of untamed nature in the middle of the city. even bits of Hyde park feel a bit wild, rather than typically park-like.

i quite like living in the suburbs of the city. i'm in gipsy hill now which is a hell of a trek to anywhere really, especially as i walk everywhere. i agree with the previous poster who said in order to really appreciate london, find a part where you feel comfortable, get to know the area and the locals, and go into central london as little as possible, which is pretty much what i do.

 

[mistersloane]

i quite like living in the suburbs of the city. i'm in gipsy hill now which is a hell of a trek to anywhere really, especially as i walk everywhere. i agree with the previous poster who said in order to really appreciate london, find a part where you feel comfortable, get to know the area and the locals, and go into central london as little as possible, which is pretty much what i do.

aaah gipsy hill. I grew up on South Croxted Road, lost my virginity in Crystal Palace. That's quite a good name for a song...

Don't forget Stave Hill Ecology Park in Rotherhithe, 10 mins from London Bridge, zone 2, 5 and a half acres of untouched land with a butterfly sanctuary etc,

http://www.urbanecology.org.uk/stavehill.html

Rotherhithe is pretty much all green and water, I love it here. It took me 20 minutes on the bus to get to Shoreditch on Sunday, will be 3 mins on the overground when it re-opens next year.

 

[IdleRich]

"But I don't know of any cities where that would be practicable (and there's miles of countryside between London and Oxford)."

Yeah, I know that, I just picked Oxford as a target. It would be an almost perversely ugly walk in parts but I'd like to think it would be interesting. I think I was expired by seeing that one-man play about a guy who morris-danced from London to Norwich.

"south london is even greener"

Such a terrible shame it's on the wrong side of the river ha ha... actually, went down to Peckham on the weekend and it's pretty nice round there, feels like there is a lot going on. Was in that art gallery thing in the multi-storey car park.

 

[baboon2004]

my favourite feature of brockwell park is the lido, affectionately known as the "brixton beach". possibly the only open air swimming pool where the smell of skunk in the air is omnipresent.

i live opposite brockwell and have never yet been to the lido.... :slanted:

Agree with scottdisco - the area round there is amazing, and the variety of things you could do in even a day is immense.

Must check out Sydenham Wood.

 

[baboon2004]

Yeah, I know that, I just picked Oxford as a target. It would be an almost perversely ugly walk in parts but I'd like to think it would be interesting. I think I was expired by seeing that one-man play about a guy who morris-danced from London to Norwich.

Such a terrible shame it's on the wrong side of the river ha ha... actually, went down to Peckham on the weekend and it's pretty nice round there, feels like there is a lot going on. Was in that art gallery thing in the multi-storey car park.

Yep, I know you'd know that! Was just saying that, on the Oxford tube route, once you get out past Hillingdon etc, it's all fields. Personally I think that the countryside outside the orbital stands comparison in terms of beauty with anywhere i've ever been in the world.

In the Time Out book of London walks (generally v suspicious of Time Out, but that book is good), there's one that goes right through n-w london along what becomes Watling St - well worth a look, loads of points of historical interest. I fear it may lead to Luton, however.

That play sounds like prime Partridge bizniz!

Edit: if you haven't already, in Peckham, go to Persepolis. Amazing shop.

 

[viktorvaughn]

Just looking at Google maps and there is a park near Brixton labelled 'Max Roach'. Am I missing something here?!