Whats it like on the outside looking in?
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it's not so much that they don't like the song -- it's more about not giving props to the dj playing it
there's a fine line b/w playing classics and pandering to the crowd, i suppose -- and i for one am never exactly sure where the line is
but brits tend to be a lot less generous than americans with where they draw the line -- which is what i assumed the person who started this thread was going on about
which reminds me, even americans in the crowd were slagging off luke vibert for playing "lfo" at an event -- of course he got hit from both sides, first for being too popist (LFO) and then for being too obscure (his own unbearable material)
so they dislike the DJ for playing a song they like?
i really don't get it at all.
All I can say is you must know some bizarrely elitist people.
If you like Good Life or LFO then why not just enjoy hearing it?
Is DJing about proving you have the most obscure taste / rarest record, or is it about setting a party atmosphere with great music?
Don't watch the lines, just play what you think is good. There's nothing wrong with pandering to the crowd by playing classics if you really think they are classics. It's when you start playing stuff you think isn't that good because you think the crowd will like it, then you've got a problem and it's time to retire.
(PS actually Big Fun is better than Good Life...)
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nomadologist
Guest
Huh? I didn't say I disliked house, just that I've never gone to a "house" club where they spin exclusively house. I was being honest to point out that I don't have a lot of firsthand experience with that sort of crowd. What's wrong with that??
I actually quite like a lot of house. It's just not a very popular scene here anymore outside of gay clubs! or among hipsters!
Personally I think this is a pretty silly statement. Distortion is used in all sorts of music and it's not at all exclusive to rock.
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nomadologist
Guest
Ripley is "OTM" as they say--in terms of the cut off point where something is finally popular enough among enough people in enough geographical regions in the U.S. to be called "big" or to be a cultural phenomenon of national proportions, the criteria here are very very tough. Even if there were technically *more* 2-step/dubstep fans here in 2005 than there are in the U.K., the scene simply does not exist over here, let alone with anything like the vitality and relevance it has in the U.K.
What usually ends up happening given the vast swaths of capital alloted to these things in the U.S. is that our well-oiled industry-led music-producing-machine will subsume/consume any legitimate "underground" "scene" that is at all sonically interesting before it has a chance to come into its own by its own merits. This means you have Kanye West already making hits out of Daft Punk and Ed Banger-style "cutting edge" (whether you like it or not it's considered cutting edge from an industry POV) audio and visual aesthetic.
Pop eats itself!
bizarrely elitist brits, to be precise
seriously i cannot be the only american here who has had this experience with british dj types == it's practically what they're known for
anyway, getting back to the original post
it's also hard to gauge from the usa just what exactly is popular in the uk
that is,
how big is bassline? grime? dubstep?
how big is techno? house? jungle? breaks? old skool?
how big are other kinds of dance music?
how big is "indie" rock?
i never really have much of an idea -- i.e., just b/c people are suddenly hyping bassline on dissensus, does this mean that it actually is really popular in the north of england?
so from the outside looking in, i really have no idea . . . .
it's also hard to gauge from the usa just what exactly is popular in the uk
that is,
how big is bassline? grime? dubstep?
how big is techno? house? jungle? breaks? old skool?
how big are other kinds of dance music?
how big is "indie" rock?
i never really have much of an idea -- i.e., just b/c people are suddenly hyping bassline on dissensus, does this mean that it actually is really popular in the north of england?
so from the outside looking in, i really have no idea . . . .
hint
party record with a siren
It happens when playing to other DJs / collectors, doesn't it? Looking at the DJ and saying "I could do that, how come he's getting paid more than me?", or "how come he's getting bookings when I can't?"
I agree, but surely you accept that there are scenes and careers built around avoiding the classics / "fish in a barrel" tunes? There's room for everybody - but the problems occur when the crowds mix.
This is a fact.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
French disco house has had like 15 years to *filter* through.
Well i've met elitist idiots too, on both sides of the atlantic! I just try not to hang out with them....
The other thing that crossed my mind was, if you think Luke Vibert's music is unbearable, why did you go to hear him DJ in the first place?
:-/
Maybe it was a speculative trip to check him out for the first time.... shame you didn't get to gear something you enjoyed either with or without the approval of your mates.
nomadologist,
That's what you said, if you actually meant "a club where they ONLY play house and nothing else" then fair enough, but it's not really how it reads, is it? It looks a lot more like you have never heard any house music whilst inside a club.
Anyway, as you say, there's nothing to stop you commenting on anything you want, just that it seemed odd to make a post namechecking Paradise Garage and Warehouse and then in the same thread claim to have never been in a club where they play house. Ever.
I already said who it reminded me of!
But I am not the Dissensus police, so please post away. I only bring it up again because you did.
About the distortion, I think it's quite a handy little signifier of an artist not being from a dance music background. I can't think of any disco records or any chicago house from 83 onwards or any late 80s Detroit techno with distortion on it. Silly? Not really but perhaps it shows my prejudice against "outsiders" messing up the scene I used to love. Just my problem...
The other thing that crossed my mind was, if you think Luke Vibert's music is unbearable, why did you go to hear him DJ in the first place?
:-/
Maybe it was a speculative trip to check him out for the first time.... shame you didn't get to gear something you enjoyed either with or without the approval of your mates.
nomadologist,
That's what you said, if you actually meant "a club where they ONLY play house and nothing else" then fair enough, but it's not really how it reads, is it? It looks a lot more like you have never heard any house music whilst inside a club.
Anyway, as you say, there's nothing to stop you commenting on anything you want, just that it seemed odd to make a post namechecking Paradise Garage and Warehouse and then in the same thread claim to have never been in a club where they play house. Ever.
I already said who it reminded me of!
But I am not the Dissensus police, so please post away. I only bring it up again because you did.
About the distortion, I think it's quite a handy little signifier of an artist not being from a dance music background. I can't think of any disco records or any chicago house from 83 onwards or any late 80s Detroit techno with distortion on it. Silly? Not really but perhaps it shows my prejudice against "outsiders" messing up the scene I used to love. Just my problem...
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nomadologist
Guest
If I have been to clubs that play house, it has never been enough to have called it a "house" club, or a "house" night.
Huh? What you are saying makes no sense. Of course you can listen to (and "namecheck") original acid house and detroit techno at home and not hear it in clubs. Very very few clubs here in the U.S. still play that kind of music! Very few!
Hearing music in a club is not the only way one can possibly hear music.
Huh? What you are saying makes no sense. Of course you can listen to (and "namecheck") original acid house and detroit techno at home and not hear it in clubs. Very very few clubs here in the U.S. still play that kind of music! Very few!
Hearing music in a club is not the only way one can possibly hear music.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Arthur Russell? Felix Da Housecat? Carl Craig?
Anyway, I'm sure you know distortion is used in all kinds of ways - not necessarily total obliteration. What's a 'dance' background exactly? Is it not allowable to be into different things and have experience of different scenes?
I sort of know what you mean but you're dissing a certain attitude that doesn't really come down to a sonic signifier.
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no i think he meant distortion like running shit into guitar petals. like that fuzzy texture some a this Nu-Rave rock-ish dance records are doing.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
I said I understand that. It just doesn't help to say 'distortion'. Am I being pedantic? I think it's misleading. (And all those people run shit into guitar pedals I reckon.)
http://www.discogs.com/release/44411
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Caustic+Window
Distortion is not the enemy. It can be a beautiful thing.
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Okay. It's just my pet peeve about the distortion.
Yeah 'course it's allowed. I already admitted it's just my preciousness about what I love and sadness at seeing music I like disappear from clubs and be replaced by music that makes me think the people making it don't even like it themselves.
There's probably a few records with distorted 303 and stuff that I like. I was just using it as a shorthand to describe the recent wave of records with huge clipping on the whole mix and distorted vocals etc.
Nomad, if you can't see how easily what you originally said could be interpreted in another way, I don't know how to explain it to you any more clearly.
You didn't say you'd never been to a "house club" or "house night", you said you had "never been to a club where they play house music. Ever."
I hope you can understand how I got a different meaning from it which led me to think it was odd for you to be talking about Warehouse (namechecking the original house CLUB, not a record or artist) given your apparent 100% avoidance of house music in clubs.
It's absolutely fine for you to now explain that you meant something different and I take it all back, OK?
Yeah 'course it's allowed. I already admitted it's just my preciousness about what I love and sadness at seeing music I like disappear from clubs and be replaced by music that makes me think the people making it don't even like it themselves.
There's probably a few records with distorted 303 and stuff that I like. I was just using it as a shorthand to describe the recent wave of records with huge clipping on the whole mix and distorted vocals etc.
Nomad, if you can't see how easily what you originally said could be interpreted in another way, I don't know how to explain it to you any more clearly.
You didn't say you'd never been to a "house club" or "house night", you said you had "never been to a club where they play house music. Ever."
I hope you can understand how I got a different meaning from it which led me to think it was odd for you to be talking about Warehouse (namechecking the original house CLUB, not a record or artist) given your apparent 100% avoidance of house music in clubs.
It's absolutely fine for you to now explain that you meant something different and I take it all back, OK?
the distortion or the surface, often senseless appropriation of rock sounds and signifiers by people who don't understand dance music has become an annoying trendy cliche. they want to turn techno into stadium rock, so dudes with ironic mullets and trucker hats who don't know how to dance can head bang to it on shitty coke.
if done well of course genre-mixing can be fun and exciting... for instance i love this kompakt shuffle-rock thing
if done well of course genre-mixing can be fun and exciting... for instance i love this kompakt shuffle-rock thing
aren't you thinking of the dude t raumshmiere?
he's done a few good shaeffel records on kompakt years ago but i'd agree it's quite annoying.
i think the prob with distortion and ed banger is it is all distortion and compression and it's all quite boring, though i think oizo does some great tracks sometimes. that nazis track was awesome.
I don't really mind the occasional bit of distortion and i think you're being a bit silly ed.
Justice really are a style over substance in such a massive way it's almost like they're joking, the big walls of rocky speakers, the distortion and the chic leathers, and claiming to not really be into rock music, and the so so tracks, best of which is a goblin tune stuck thru a bit of compression and a bit of editing. In a time when dance music is invisible to the press they're dance with a cartoon rock face.
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nomadologist
Guest
justice make me laugh but i don't think that musically they're anything special. vitalic did the whole "electronic music can rock harder than rock" thing much better imo.
when i first heard "D.A.N.C.E." i thought i'd mistakenly walked into Old Navy
when i first heard "D.A.N.C.E." i thought i'd mistakenly walked into Old Navy
i don't think you're arguing in good faith at this point
certainly it's been my experience, with people from both sides of the atlantic, that the ones who are really into music and have the best collections tend to be "elitist" in slagging off other djs -- and the brits, if i may say so, tend to be much more outspoken in making their judgments
but again, this is generally true of any dj or music fiend
i heard luke vibert play at a place called 3rd Ward in bushwick -- last summer maybe? -- he was the main attraction, but not the only attraction
it was the first time i ever heard him play. however, i used to like some of his records back in the 90s, though i doubt they hold up well today. he began his set playing a lot of 91/92 stuff, which i for one rather liked, but some people i know were disappointed that he was playing something as well known as "lfo." i for one didn't really care . . . . where vibert lost me was during the latter 2/3 of his set, which to me seemed his own infantile exercise into solipsism -- hardly crowd friendly -- but whatever
this is rather snarky
however, i did state upthread that i take my friend's opinions of a record into account when considering whether to play something to other people or not. that is, i'm not really a dj, but i do on occasion have opportunity to play records for people. therefore, i consider whether this is really a record that needs to be played, or whether i might have something else in my collection that might prove more of a revelation, or that hasn't been played to death by countless other people, or can i find a record that has more wit or more power or more whatever . . . .
so yeah, i suppose i do seek approval when playing records -- but not easy approval