john eden

male pale and stale
I think we have more chance of reversing brexit than US policy.
Me and you? I think the chances of us achieving either of those things is slim.

In both situations there is a chance to marginally assist people who are at the sharp end of government policy though.

With the eventual aim of building up enough power that we (the people not in charge) can transform the world in our interests.
 

wild greens

Well-known member
A better use of everyone's time would be formulating how to get these tory knobheads out

Everything else is secondary

*edited to remove colloquial language
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Me and you? I think the chances of us achieving either of those things is slim.

In both situations there is a chance to marginally assist people who are at the sharp end of government policy though.

With the eventual aim of building up enough power that we (the people not in charge) can transform the world in our interests.
We the people, not you and I.... but earlier you stated that a groundswell of opinion that could influence Afghanistan policy whereas nothing can reverse brexit. I think taken together those claims add up to bollocks.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
We the people, not you and I.... but earlier you stated that a groundswell of opinion that could influence Afghanistan policy whereas nothing can reverse brexit. I think taken together those claims add up to bollocks.
I think it is more likely that a popular movement (it would need to be global) can influence the situation in Afghanistan than us rejoining the EU any time soon.

I’m not calling for the US to re-enter Afghanistan.
 

luka

Well-known member

idle richie, tea and eden will all thoroughly enjoy this brexit essay by marxist historian ep thompson
 

haji

lala
i think the modern delusion that current affairs gives a fuck about us is a separate topic.
but the question of how to reverse brexit is an interesting one - a bit of a huge monster, so many big questions there

could we roll back the domestic legislation (e.g. if there was a 2nd referendum, and remain won)?
would the EU allow us back, i think they might, but they would they not impose conditions that might even make it less desirable than staying out?
could we reverse the effects of brexit peicemeal, seems tricksy, but maybe in some areas, like the lorry drivers co-op
 

luka

Well-known member
Some sillies in the labour movements suppose the Market will facilitate socialist and trade union activity. It will do the opposite. It will put the bourgeoisie twenty years ahead at one throw. Luigi and Kurt and George and Gaston, with their secretaries, their linguistic skills, their massed telephones, their expense-account weekends, their inter-locking euro-directorships, their manipulation of the rules and of the Brussels spouters, will always be smiling at the table, with the agenda cooked, the day before the workers get there. And British labour will cast away its one incomparable historical asset (a united movement) in anxious negotiations with its fragmented and ideologically embittered counterparts.

Meanwhile the Dutch elm disease (Europe’s most viable export to England in the past decade) is nothing to the beetles being bred by the bureaucrats in Brussels to blight what remains of our active democratic traditions. True, there are plenty of people high in the British state who would like to do the same. But that’s the point. The enemies, as well as the friends, of democratic process are everywhere and anywhere: internationalism falls along the line of that horizontal fracture, not within a set of vertical alliances.
 
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