Cancellations

[john eden]

It’s not like anyone on the left spends hours producing texts, lectures, videos, books, blogs, has every day discussions etc. No we never want to talk to people or persuade them.

 

[haji]

Maybe they did, but they don't just die the moment they're cancelled. What happens to their families, dependents etc if they have them? Should they be forced onto welfare?

I think resorting to hypotheticals or theoretical conflation with rightism is avoiding the issue
look at the examples i gave at the start of the thread and refer to them please, or come up with your own

 

[john eden]

It's a hypothetical. And yeah, they are, but I dunno whether that's a great argument for forcing more people onto it.

You think that questioning the entire economic system that forces people into poverty is better than focussing on showbiz media spats? Sweet! I’d be well up for that.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

yeah but that's pre-internet thinkng

it isn't

the argument over whether to trust people to think for themselves or not is as old as politics

you make it seem like the only option to counter manipulation is to manipulate people

which implicitly declares that people are incapable of thinking for themselves

neither of those things are true

 

[haji]

it's about addressing impunity.
our job is to bring this to bear on the rest of the powerful bullies who swan about like they own the place

 

[haji]

it's not about manipulation, it's about transparency

 

[version]

Someone who loses their job has five or six options, and if they've lost it due to a cancellation then the best option's already been hampered somewhat. They can:

1) apply for another job and hope someone's willing to take on the additional risk in hiring them
2) go on welfare/benefits
3) live off someone else
4) live on the streets
5) turn to crime
6) kill themselves

I guess you could also throw in joining the military, but most people won't pass the medical and fitness tests.

 

[haji]

You think that questioning the entire economic system that forces people into poverty is better than focussing on showbiz media spats? Sweet! I’d be well up for that.

good point, the mediaplex is so dominant that by toppling the celebrity neerdowells we can affect every level of society with examples of righteous conduct

 

[haji]

Someone who loses their job has five or six options, and if they've lost it due to a cancellation then the best option's already been hampered somewhat. They can:

1) apply for another job and hope someone's willing to take on the additional risk in hiring them
2) go on welfare/benefits
3) live off someone else
4) live on the streets
5) turn to crime
6) kill themselves

I guess you could also throw in joining the military, but most people won't pass the medical and fitness tests.

yes yes it's bad to lose your job, i lost mine through union activism, none of that is relevant?

 

[linebaugh]

It’s not like anyone on the left spends hours producing texts, lectures, videos, books, blogs, has every day discussions etc. No we never want to talk to people or persuade them.

There's a difference between online and in person behavior. My experience has been that most in person lefty groups are left completely impotent by behavior in the genreal spirit of cancel culture. Im also younger than many here I think, but again, the young left is still valid.

 

[version]

How is losing your job not relevant to a discussion of getting people fired?

 

[haji]

Lady Hale is the chief judge of UK, head of the supreme court

 

[haji]

How is losing your job not relevant to a discussion of getting people fired?

In the abstract i think we all agree that it's a shame to lose your job, but i think we're trying to analyse about whether cancellation produces injustice

 

[linebaugh]

it's not about manipulation, it's about transparency

Half of this argument is just semantics on the difference between 'accountability' and 'cancel culture.' The latter being used by some as a pejorative form of the former.

 

[john eden]

This is veering into “They’ll arrest you these days just for saying you’re English“ territory.

 

[version]

I'm not saying these people aren't arseholes. I'm saying what happens once they've been cancelled/fired? Are they allowed to work again or do we build some social leper colony for people who say racist things on social media?

 

[john eden]

I'm not saying these people aren't arseholes. I'm saying what happens once they've been cancelled/fired? Are they allowed to work again or do we build some social leper colony for people who say racist things on social media?

You think me and Sufi decide this?

 

[haji]

I'm not saying these people aren't arseholes. I'm saying what happens once they've been cancelled/fired? Are they allowed to work again or do we build some social leper colony for people who say racist things on social media?

depends if they are in jail or not, depends if they are a horrible racist who got their job unjustly, depends if they repent , genuinely about something that genuinely they did wrong

 

[haji]

Half of this argument is just semantics on the difference between 'accountability' and 'cancel culture.' The latter being used by some as a pejorative form of the former.

Accountability is exactly what this is about. Thank you

 

[john eden]

Depends what they have done and how contrite and reflective they are. Not sure I’d want an unrepentant nonce or neo-Nazi working with me.

Yeah.