Why Conspiracy Theories?

[IdleRich]

brighter in many ways

That's why they call them The Illuminated Ones... no wait a minute, they're the bad guys.

But actually I don't think that statement can be allowed to pass unexamined... are you saying that all conspiracy theorists are at least as bright as Leo? I don't agree with that. Sure there may be some genius in those who come up with all the ideas and the bits that can really hook people in... the startling revelations that actually work... but there are so many disappointingly basic conspiracy theorists.

You know when you watch a film and it's about myth or conspiracy or just something that you know about vaguely in passing, and yet when you see the hollywood version even you can instantly tell that it's a horribly simplified take, they've cut out loads of good stuff and joined two characters together etc and it's just so disappointing when you've read something like Illuminati or Foucault's Pendulum and seen how much fun can be had - even if you don't believe it - by researching this stuff properly and throwing it all together in inventive ways. That's often how your average conspiracist makes you feel, they'll often be like "There was this organisation called The Stone Masons or something and they put this pyramid thing on a pound coin..." and you want to shake them and tell them how badly they are failing to be a paranoid green crayon resistor (they probably put cooking parchment or clingfilm on their heads when they get home), that even though you don't believe in it at all you know way more than them.

So no, they are not brighter than Leo.

 

[luka]

I disagree I think they are all conspicuously brighter than Leo.

 

[Leo]

sigh

 

[IdleRich]

I disagree I think they are all conspicuously brighter than Leo.

What... even Mixed Biscuits? That's ridiculous.

 

[Leo]

mixed is much smarter than me. he's a Cambridge boy, right? or is it that other school?

 

[Mr. Tea]

That just seems amazing. I thought that the whole point of a conspiracy theory was that you pick (I mean discover) some terrible secret - eg the Jews running everything or there being a humongous network of celebrity paedos who are engaged in a war against Trump - and that's your kind of axiomatic base rule. Everything you see or hear or read has to be considered as part of a world where that is true, if someone finds some evidence that is directly contradictory to your theory then it's fake or has been put there by the baddies cos it's exactly what they want you to believe and so on, but the base axiom can't be changed or else you have abandoned your conspiracy theory and moved on to a new one. And it seems that making China the good guy would be dangerously close to doing that. What's next, are they gonna say that the paedos are actually the good guys? In fact we should be helping celebs to kidnap children cos they are fundamentally just better than us and if that is what they need then who are we to try and stop them?

I think the people who believe in this stuff could, if push came to shove, find it in their hearts to rehabilitate virtually any group they traditionally like to blame - communists, masons, Jews, Nazis, Jewish Nazis, Ringwraiths, the sentient black goo from The X-Files - as long as they can still identify the Democratic Party as the ultimate seat of all evil.

 

[luka]

mixed is much smarter than me. he's a Cambridge boy, right? or is it that other school?

he might have gone to both? he's one of those certificate collectors he has about 7 degrees.

 

[luka]

the article sufi recommended and endorsed without reservations ( https://winteroak.org.uk/2022/03/09/the-great-reset-phase-2-war/ )
isn't particularly mad and most of it is based on public statements from some of the big players. the great reset is not a phrase that originates from conspiracy nuts its the WEF. its just a bit of modest futurology extrapolating from current trends, technologies, policies and public statements.

i wouldn't say they're not bright. they've been captured' by a narrative to some degree but i don't think that makes them thick. it just means the narrative has a strong gravitational pull.

 

[Mr. Tea]

The sorts of people who take this stuff seriously are the sorts of people who think Zelenksyy is a "Nazi", but who also have a Confederate flag as their avatar. (Just check the comments at the bottom.)

 

[luka]

ive told you so many times not to do this and you still do it its unebeliveable

 

[forclosure]

I think the people who believe in this stuff could, if push came to shove, find it in their hearts to rehabilitate virtually any group they traditionally like to blame - communists, masons, Jews, Nazis, Jewish Nazis, Ringwraiths, the sentient black goo from The X-Files - as long as they can still identify the Democratic Party as the ultimate seat of all evil.

i doubt anybody really cares cah its twitter bullshit but there's a corner of that whole american leftist stuff where they've really gotten into this idea of elites all being part of some kind of satanistic cabal and online sex workers are really being trafficed and all this stuff.

And its funny in the face of in places like Texas when there's actual legislation shegging up lives for trans people these same people have been silent on the matter(somebody can tell me otherwise since i'm not there i'm just going by what i've had to see people share) but like it's funny really this shit stems from the fact that trying to get Bernie Sanders the presidential nod was repeadtly a flop so for comfort they talk about them like they've exchanged numbers and swapped partners with Belial himself.

Also fact of the matter is it's no different from all the old Satanic panic shit that happend in the 80s and they HATE the people that did all that

 

[luka]

but leaving that aside the notion that we are moving into a future of ever increasing control is not a mad one and the technolgies to facilitate it are already in place as vimothy has been explaining to stan on one of the crypto threads

 

[forclosure]

Its narrative having pull but also a result of more "regular" people using the internet, people took for granted that when a fake article or some bullshit photo would be shared about it would only one or two people who would fall for it

 

[luka]

he cant budge stan from his techno-optimism becasuse techno-optimism feels so good and pessimism is a downer but hes made the arguments

 

[Mr. Tea]

Contra luka, I think the interesting conspiracy theories are the ones that have had some real thought put into them, whether they're being proposed as actually true, or as fiction (e.g. Foucault's Pendulum as Rich mentioned).

The boring ones are the ones invented by cranks and stoners that fall over if you breathe on them too hard, e.g. the orthodox 9/11 Inside Job theory, that collapses like a dynamite-packed tower block the moment you ask who or what the hijackers were.

 

[forclosure]

but leaving that aside the notion that we are moving into a future of ever increasing control is not a mad one and the technolgies to facilitate it are already in place as vimothy has been explaining to stan on one of the crypto threads

i mean you say this but there's also the fact that especially cause of and since COVID the habit of people just abandoning standard procedures that have been about for decades and accepting and endorsing ideas that in the past would've been deemed fringe right wing bullshit have been happening at a rapid rate.

you get self professed leftists suddenly siding military intervention when before they would say they're anti war without any hesitation

 

[Mr. Tea]

i doubt anybody really cares cah its twitter bullshit but there's a corner of that whole american leftist stuff where they've really gotten into this idea of elites all being part of some kind of satanistic cabal and online sex workers are really being trafficed and all this stuff.

And its funny in the face of in places like Texas when there's actual legislation shegging up lives for trans people these same people have been silent on the matter(somebody can tell me otherwise since i'm not there i'm just going by what i've had to see people share) but like it's funny really this shit stems from the fact that trying to get Bernie Sanders the presidential nod was repeadtly a flop so for comfort they talk about them like they've exchanged numbers and swapped partners with Belial himself.

Also fact of the matter is it's no different from all the old Satanic panic shit that happend in the 80s and they HATE the people that did all that

I guess, but I don't see this as having much to do with "leftists". It's all crystallized into QAnon which is pretty damn far right.

 

[forclosure]

The boring ones are the ones invented by cranks and stoners that fall over if you breathe on them too hard, e.g. the orthodox 9/11 Inside Job theory, that collapses like a dynamite-packed tower block the moment you ask who or what the hijackers were.

I mean you say their cranks and stoners but even the September the 11th people (cmon we're brits we need to reclaim this) had their own wing of builders and the like.

Its easy to say their stoners and that's definitly a part of it always has been but especially post-Epstein you get alot of types now who wouldn't call themselves conspiracy theorists but would admit to engaging or entertaining the idea of em

fucking OKCupid of all places when you're putting a profile together has a "what's your favourite conspiracy theory?" section

 

[luka]

you two seem to be talking about entirely different things here.

 

[forclosure]

I guess, but I don't see this as having much to do with "leftists". It's all crystallized into QAnon which is pretty damn far right.

QAnon from our perspective is far right but they don't think of themselves as that and it has alot to do with leftists because they both share the same kind of resentment with capitalism and the distrust of government at large.