Bernard Manning, R.I.P.

Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
bassnation said:
everyone is on that scale to a lesser or greater degree - i don't believe in absolutes. have you never found a member of the same sex attractive, mr tea?
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Not as far as I know, no. Exactly when did this "everyone's queer" doctrine become orthodox, anyway?
At the opposite end of the spectrum, most of the gay guys I know have no interest in women whatsoever.

Also, fancying ugly people is not a passport to being universally recognised as really 'deep'. In fact, if you're attracted to someone just because they're not 'classically good-looking', that's every bit as superficial as going for attractive people.
 
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bassnation

the abyss
Mr. Tea said:
Yes, but a gay couple can't BOTH be the dad, can they?
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thats not far off, mate, believe me. and besides, you could always find a friendly egg donor. so whats the problem? with those last obstacles being removed, surely you can find your way out the closet now.
 
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mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
Mr. Tea said:
Not as far as I know, no. Exactly when did this "everyone's queer" doctrine become orthodox, anyway?
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I think Freud kicked off all that, and it's been kinda disproven, along with the 10 percent of people being gay stuff, it was kinda a hangover from gay rights.


Mr. Tea said:
At the opposite end of the spectrum, most of the gay guys I know have no interest in women whatsoever.
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That's cos you're straight, we've an image to keep up. In a totally gay male environment all we do is talk about fucking birds and football.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
mistersloane said:
Bit of a hassle though if you ask me.
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EXACTLY!
All this surrogacy technology is great for people who want to create a family that way, I genuinely have no problem with it at all. But the old meet-woman, fall-in-love, decide-to-have-kids, have-sex, get-pregnant, VOILA! kids route - as repulsively old-fashioned as it may seem to some people ;) - will do just fine for me.

Providing years of exposure to harmful Internet rays haven't turned all my sperm three-headed, or something...
 
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bassnation

the abyss
Mr. Tea said:
Not as far as I know, no. Exactly when did this "everyone's queer" doctrine become orthodox, anyway?
At the opposite end of the spectrum, most of the gay guys I know have no interest in women whatsoever.

Also, fancying ugly people is not a passport to being universally recognised as really 'deep'. In fact, if you're attracted to someone just because they're not 'classically good-looking', that's every bit as superficial as going for attractive people.
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i know plenty of gay men who have slept with women. i know of lesbians who occassionally sleep with men. i know straight men who are so camp they'd make larry grayson look like hulk hogan. straight men who occasionally find other men attractive. and all points inbetween. its only an observation, take it or dismiss it, it doesn't matter to me. you seem to get all hot under the collar when we dicuss this. i don't think its a big deal at all, whatever people want to do.

and this thing about fancying ugly people being superficial seems like another knee jerk reaction from you. i wasn't saying that people go for ugly people deliberately. but that theres more to attraction than the phsyical. i thought it was a pretty simple concept which was pretty much universally understood.
 
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bassnation

the abyss
Mr. Tea said:
EXACTLY!
All this surrogacy technology is great for people who want to create a family that way, I genuinely have no problem with it at all. But the old meet-woman, fall-in-love, decide-to-have-kids, have-sex, get-pregnant, VOILA! kids route - as repulsively old-fashioned as it may seem to some people ;) - will do just fine for me.
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theres plenty of straight "normal" couples who can't use the old fashioned route - hence the prominence of IVF. whats your opinion on that? do you consider them freaks of nature or something?
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
bassnation said:
its only an observation, take it or dismiss it, it doesn't matter to me. you seem to get all hot under the collar when we dicuss this. i don't think its a big deal at all, whatever people want to do.
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The problem comes when people say things like "everyone lies somewhere on this line...", or whatever, because "everyone" includes me and I'd rather people who've never met me didn't take it upon themselves to make pronouncements about me. Surely that's not such a controversial idea? Surely a gay man wouldn't like it if you went up to him and said "Oh come on, you're not really gay, are you?"
bassnation said:
and this thing about fancying ugly people being superficial seems like another knee jerk reaction from you. i wasn't saying that people go for ugly people deliberately. but that theres more to attraction than the phsyical. i thought it was a pretty simple concept which was pretty much universally understood.
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Well DUH, I'm not saying we should all just go into the nearest singles bar, pull the most attractive person we can see there and decide to spend the rest of our life with her/him - of course there's much more to it than the physical, but all the same, it's a good place to start. I mean, seriously, all other things being equal (so dropping for a moment the tired cliche about all unattractive people having loads of 'personality' or all attractive people being 'shallow'*), you'd rather have a partner whom you consider good-looking than one you don't, wouldn't you?

*alright, alright, no-one's actually said that, but we were getting close...
 
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Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
mistersloane said:
It's only one step removed really. Except that the having sex part would come alot more than once.
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I was wondering when someone would pick up on my little deliberate mistake. :)
I guess "have-sex-without-contraception-in-the-deliberate-hope-of-spawning-a-sprog" was too much hassle to write.
 
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mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
Mr. Tea said:
but all the same, it's a good place to start. I mean, seriously, all other things being equal (so dropping for a moment the tired cliche about all unattractive people having loads of 'personality' or all attractive people being 'shallow'*), you'd rather have a partner whom you consider good-looking than one you don't, wouldn't you?
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Can't remember where - I've got a weird feeling it was Mariella Frostrup's agony column in the Observer magazine and I'm not going to own up to reading THAT - but they were saying that in real life the chances of 'success' - i.e. long term relationship - are much higher when the people meet and physical attractiveness isn't the first thing, i.e. people who have been friends for ages who start going out, that sort of thing. Physical attractiveness is really arbitrary and can come along ages after you've known someone, or even ages after you've been sleeping with them, and vice-versa, people who you really fancy become unattractive. I've never understood that, it's like witchcraft, glamour wearing off.
 
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bassnation

the abyss
Mr. Tea said:
The problem comes when people say things like "everyone lies somewhere on this line...", or whatever, because "everyone" includes me and I'd rather people who've never met me didn't take it upon themselves to make pronouncements about me. Surely that's not such a controversial idea? Surely a gay man wouldn't like it if you went up to him and said "Oh come on, you're not really gay, are you?"
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what does it matter? if you know your truth then why get upset about someone who you've never met expressing opinions on the internet?

Well DUH, I'm not saying we should all just go into the nearest singles bar, pull the most attractive person we can see there and decide to spend the rest of our life with her/him - of course there's much more to it than the physical, but all the same, it's a good place to start. I mean, seriously, all other things being equal (so dropping for a moment the tired cliche about all unattractive people having loads of 'personality' or all attractive people being 'shallow'*), you'd rather have a partner whom you consider good-looking than one you don't, wouldn't you?

*alright, alright, no-one's actually said that, but we were getting close...
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again, you misunderstand. you are so tied up the whole attractive / ugly thing you can't see that other people might not even operate on this axis. for some people intelligence, or a strong forceful personality is attractive. looks don't even come into it for some people - it might be a criterion, but it could be a lower priority than something else. maybe this is tricky to get your head round if you are in your early twenties, i dunno.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Well, maybe that's how it is for some people. My girlfriend and I met because we fancied each other, then we realised we actually really liked each other too, so it's the best of both worlds.
(Sorry if I've caused any gastric upsets with that, hope you had a receptacle handy near your computer... :))
 
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bassnation

the abyss
mistersloane said:
Can't remember where - I've got a weird feeling it was Mariella Frostrup's agony column in the Observer magazine and I'm not going to own up to reading THAT - but they were saying that in real life the chances of 'success' - i.e. long term relationship - are much higher when the people meet and physical attractiveness isn't the first thing, i.e. people who have been friends for ages who start going out, that sort of thing. Physical attractiveness is really arbitrary and can come along ages after you've known someone, or even ages after you've been sleeping with them, and vice-versa, people who you really fancy become unattractive. I've never understood that, it's like witchcraft, glamour wearing off.
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exactly. my ex-partner no longer does it for me, looks wise, but she hasn't changed physically. the meaning and experience i have are the things that have changed and that overrides any gauge of attractiveness.

these things are imbued with your own meaning.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
bassnation said:
what does it matter? if you know your truth then why get upset about someone who you've never met expressing opinions on the internet?
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I think that would be to miss the point of the entire Internet. We are on Dissensus, after all!

bassnation said:
again, you misunderstand. you are so tied up the whole attractive / ugly thing you can't see that other people might not even operate on this axis. for some people intelligence, or a strong forceful personality is attractive. looks don't even come into it for some people - it might be a criterion, but it could be a lower priority than something else. maybe this is tricky to get your head round if you are in your early twenties, i dunno.
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Look, I'm certainly not saying looks are the be-all and end-all, and if I've been painted into that corner, it's because some people on here seem to be saying the exact opposite, i.e. that looks mean NOTHING when it comes to a relationship, and I just can't believe that either. Well, maybe it's true for some people, but I think it's rather strange. Is it what you think? Fair play if it is, I'm not knocking you.

For the record, I'm 26, and I've never been attracted to the 'bimbo' type. I find boring women exaclty that - boring - just the same way I find boring blokes boring. In my experience, how boring or interesting someone is has very little to do with how good-looking they are.
 
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bassnation

the abyss
Mr. Tea said:
Look, I'm certainly not saying looks are the be-all and end-all, and if I've been painted into that corner, it's because some people on here seem to be saying the exact opposite, i.e. that looks mean NOTHING when it comes to a relationship, and I just can't believe that either. Well, maybe it's true for some people, but I think it's rather strange. Is it what you think? Fair play if it is, I'm not knocking you.

For the record, I'm 26, and I've never been attracted to the 'bimbo' type. I find boring women exaclty that - boring - just the same way I find boring blokes boring. In my experience, how boring or interesting someone is has very little to do with how good-looking they are.
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alright i can accept that - i think we are probably closer to agreeing than we realise. i don't think looks mean nothing, but just that although attractiveness seems simple on the surface, in fact, its not straightforward at all.
 
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