Going it alone
- Thread starter sus
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Woebot
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This holds true especially with Dance music and Electronica. In the old days gear was pooled - no-one owned everything. That was one factor. The Black Dog was three people bickering - Turner/Handley/Downie - all three of them had to be happy with a record.
The old jungle twelve releases - often crews of people - Dego/Marc Mac/Goldie. Foul Play - Morrow/Bradshaw/Gurley. Omni Trio - Haigh/Playford.
In the old rock eco-system big groups of people made music. The best example being the Beatles - John, Paul, George and Ringo - even Billy Preston yes. But also George Martin, Geoff Emerick, Phil Macdonald, Alan Parsons...
Woebot
Well-known member
Always surrounded by big groups of collaborators.
You've also got Marilyn Manson appearing between Madonna and Gaga and taking a lot of cues from Bowie.
Leo
Well-known member
yeah, leveraging the Alice Cooper/metal shock horror tradition.
Woebot
Well-known member
entertainment
Well-known member
stay in your lane straight white people or he'll come for you!
luka
Well-known member
yeah, i see what you're saying. quite interesting. i suppose we think as straight white people (me and you and padraig and the rest of us) what we might permit ourselves to do or forbid ourselves to do. eg i wouldnt rap. but also the idea that Bowie, used queerness and black music feels a bit reductive here and the implied ethics feels dangerous.
entertainment
Well-known member
i'm not a big fan of the exploitation lens, i think it's a violent simplification. there are more facets at play than opportunism, if that even was a conscious motive of either.
but obviously padraig knows this, it was mostly a quip about him being stuck on the same note, resorting to the same line of argument
but obviously padraig knows this, it was mostly a quip about him being stuck on the same note, resorting to the same line of argument
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I'm not straight
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
not that that should matter in terms of making a critique, but just to be clear
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
when it applies equally to two similar cases, you bet
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
it's no big deal. I'm not closeted or anything but I generally default pass as straight and I don't make a big thing of it.
I don't remember much of what we talked about, of course we were also off our faces, or I was
entertainment
Well-known member
it would apply to any succesful artist in the history of music with debts to minority / marginalised cultures
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I would agree with luke that Bowie wasn't just using queerness or black music or etc to promote himself
at the same time he undeniably used both as stepping stones
where you want to draw the exploitation/influence line is up for debate
I can't speak to his personal motivations - like anyone's I assume they were complicated
certainly, he situationally deployed ambiguous sexuality to further his career and then dropped it when it was no longer helpful
he's on better ground with black music i.e. that famous clip of him calling out early 80s MTV for not playing enough black artists
at the same time he undeniably used both as stepping stones
where you want to draw the exploitation/influence line is up for debate
I can't speak to his personal motivations - like anyone's I assume they were complicated
certainly, he situationally deployed ambiguous sexuality to further his career and then dropped it when it was no longer helpful
he's on better ground with black music i.e. that famous clip of him calling out early 80s MTV for not playing enough black artists
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
not equally
thankfully that's why we have critical faculties, to be able to distinguish between things