Catalog's hip hop journey

[forclosure]

There's actually a huge connection between Rhymes and Dean Blunt, cos Hype Williams directed a number of Busta videos...

But anyway this song. I dunno, it's got a great bassline ill give you that, love that crackle.

And when he first comes in, it's got a q-tip feel to me, that laconic delivery.

But then he starts doing all the rhymes with the -io/yo stem and like, yeah, it's clever, specially when he gets to "video", that he's sustained that for so long.

But it's also just a bit restricted and feels a bit repetitive?

Then the chorus. That's very poor, come on now.

And then the song doesn't really go anywhere else. It's sparse which I would normally like, and like I said, got a killer b-line, but it's very one dimensional and yes, a bit "novelty".

Like, I am reminded of the Hype Williams video era a lot when I listen to this song, but Busta to me is the worst of it. He's not as good as Missy Elliot, or Biggie. He's maybe on a level with Will Smith how about that? Only kidding.

Second one: I immediately like this a lot cos of:

1. Crew aspect with the call response and echoes.

2. It's using the same sample used by schoolly d who is one of the all time greats in my book.

Good fast chat. When Tupac comes in, wow. The range in his voice, that's present straightaway. He's got that gift of being able to sound like he's simply talking to you, sat on the seat beside you. I'm not a mega Tupac fan, but I been around enough people who love him to death (and proceed to explain that to me) and while I never listened to him much at the time, I do have more time for him now.

Definite winner of the pair no question.

i mean i can understand in term of the video since those played a big part with Busta at the time(if anything i feel like your response to Busta is similiar to why i always found Migos so tacky) but seriously when you also remember the fact that Hype did videos for Ja Rule no way is Busta the worst absolutely and don't you try to tell me that Ja Rule is a better rapper.

The most "animated" (as in acting like a cartoon) where as Missy felt beamed in from the future and Biggie felt lavish but nah. Also the hook is good man come on if there's anything it reminds me of its some of those old dance songs where they'd dedicate time in the track to tell you how to do the dance or whatever.

Interesting fact about that "laconic" delivery apprently it was Diddy who suggested that he go for that delivery, focus on the texture of his voice rather than the energy that he was known for so the restraint and repetition that you find as a hinderance was done intentionally and i think it works well Future's Karate Chop is the other track that comes to mind for me where maintaining one specific rhyme scheme/cadence sounds easy but is incredibly difficult.this was a HUGE club track back in 97 when "club rap" was beginning to be a thing so yeah over headphones or in your house eating dinner with the wife it sounds whatever but in a spot where there's a gigantic sound system and people are popping bottles of overpriced in the VIP lounge it's PERFECT man.

 

[luka]

i think this thread should carry on forever or until there are no hiphop records left, just keep forcing rap down his gullet like a foie grois duck

 

[forclosure]

@catalog i was originally gonna go with Don't touch me(throw the water on em) but i feel like with that track i knew how you'd respond to it.
honestly Busta is a far more versatile and interesting rapper than i think you're really giving him credit for adaptive enough to work with rappers from many different reasons and while he might not have a front to back classic album to his name (woops will say Anarchy while some people will say The coming) he's built a reputation as being a guy who kill a feature with style "Look at me now" is a really obvious example of that cause all even now there's still people who hold up "rapping really fast" as the peak of technical skill

 

[luka]

 

[forclosure]

also @catalog as you've just gone and mentioned Dean Blunt when we said not to everybody should pelt you with tomatos for the next 5 minutes

Its funny i've seen you go on in here about how much you love Kool Keith but one thing that links alot of Long island rappers (Keith Murray,de la marci etc) is their love for Ultramag i would've thought you'd be able to recognise that connection either that or how similiar he is to dancehall deejays of that era. Yeah i'll admit some of this defence comes from the fact that Busta was the first rapper i really loved but like you look at Ninjaman, Shabba ,Bounty, Buju the gap between him and them isn't that big.

no disrespect to the legend but like being really into Kool Keith especially now is just the older white guy backpacker version of being REALLY into lil b and both share that thing of once you get past a certain point of wanting to listen to everything they've done there's nothing i can do to help you lol

 

[forclosure]

i'm just saying Busta's been about for more than 30+ years and is still considered a big enough name that rappers significantly younger than him still reach out to him for collaborations, you can't say that for Snow or Vanilla Ice, the former was a white guy from canada doing fast chat which forget pre-Drake,pre-Kardinal Official there was no way he was gonna be seen as anything else other than a novelty saying gibberish like likky boom boom down and all that.

and as for Vanilla Ice,bruv your man was out here dancing with Ninja Turtles,even when he started smoking ganja and growing locks he never rapped like Busta lol

 

[forclosure]

listening to MC Breed now, its clear to see his influence on the more restrained menacing end of detroit rap (Babyface Ray,Allstar JR DEFINITLY Boldy James)

Just sounding completly unbothered by all things around them and not in that Jay Z way where they sound bored or above it all

 

[catalog]

i mean i can understand in term of the video since those played a big part with Busta at the time(if anything i feel like your response to Busta is similiar to why i always found Migos so tacky) but seriously when you also remember the fact that Hype did videos for Ja Rule no way is Busta the worst absolutely and don't you try to tell me that Ja Rule is a better rapper.

The most "animated" (as in acting like a cartoon) where as Missy felt beamed in from the future and Biggie felt lavish but nah. Also the hook is good man come on if there's anything it reminds me of its some of those old dance songs where they'd dedicate time in the track to tell you how to do the dance or whatever.

Interesting fact about that "laconic" delivery apprently it was Diddy who suggested that he go for that delivery, focus on the texture of his voice rather than the energy that he was known for so the restraint and repetition that you find as a hinderance was done intentionally and i think it works well Future's Karate Chop is the other track that comes to mind for me where maintaining one specific rhyme scheme/cadence sounds easy but is incredibly difficult.this was a HUGE club track back in 97 when "club rap" was beginning to be a thing so yeah over headphones or in your house eating dinner with the wife it sounds whatever but in a spot where there's a gigantic sound system and people are popping bottles of overpriced in the VIP lounge it's PERFECT man.

well, yeah, i probably never heard Busta out anywhere. Let's see what other videos Hype Williams made in the same year he made this one:

1997[edit]​

• Missy Elliott – "The Rain (Supa Dupa Fly)"[10][11]
• Puff Daddy feat. Faith Evans and 112 – "I'll Be Missing You"
• R. Kelly – "Gotham City"[12]
• The Notorious B.I.G. feat. Puff Daddy and Mase – "Mo Money Mo Problems"
• Mary J. Blige – "Everything"
• Busta Rhymes – "Put Your Hands Where My Eyes Could See"[13]
• Missy Elliott feat. Da Brat – "Sock It 2 Me"[14]
• Jay-Z feat. Foxy Brown and Babyface – "(Always Be My) Sunshine"
• Busta Rhymes – "Dangerous"
• Mase – "Feel So Good"
• Wild Orchid – "Supernatural"
• Will Smith – "Gettin' Jiggy wit It"
• Usher – "Nice and Slow"[15][16]
• Refugee Camp All-Stars feat. Pras and Ky-Mani Marley – "Avenues"
• Scarface – "Mary Jane"
• R. Kelly – "Gotham City Remix"
• Snow – "Anything for You" (All-Star Cast Remix)
• The Firm - "Firm Biz"

Would you place Busta above Mase? We'll have to discount R.Kelly I think. Snow! LOL!


Britney Spears / Hit me baby one more time vibe on the video (Britney was 98).

 

[catalog]

also @catalog as you've just gone and mentioned Dean Blunt when we said not to everybody should pelt you with tomatos for the next 5 minutes

Its funny i've seen you go on in here about how much you love Kool Keith but one thing that links alot of Long island rappers (Keith Murray,de la marci etc) is their love for Ultramag i would've thought you'd be able to recognise that connection either that or how similiar he is to dancehall deejays of that era. Yeah i'll admit some of this defence comes from the fact that Busta was the first rapper i really loved but like you look at Ninjaman, Shabba ,Bounty, Buju the gap between him and them isn't that big.

no disrespect to the legend but like being really into Kool Keith especially now is just the older white guy backpacker version of being REALLY into lil b and both share that thing of once you get past a certain point of wanting to listen to everything they've done there's nothing i can do to help you lol

yes i know i should not have mentioned dean blunt! but really there is a good essay to be written about the lift of the name hype williams cos i think he is pointing to how much of that era of mtv base was an influence. and HW is the glue of it all in a sense.

i accept my tomatoes.

re keith - not sure what you mean really. i don't have a massive urge to listen to everything he's done (but i will check those ones woops posted). He's just someone i can always reliably know i'm going to like, whichever of his songs comes on. oddly, i have tried a bit with lil b but i've never understood his appeal.

 

[catalog]

i'm just saying Busta's been about for more than 30+ years and is still considered a big enough name that rappers significantly younger than him still reach out to him for collaborations, you can't say that for Snow or Vanilla Ice, the former was a white guy from canada doing fast chat which forget pre-Drake,pre-Kardinal Official there was no way he was gonna be seen as anything else other than a novelty saying gibberish like likky boom boom down and all that.

and as for Vanilla Ice,bruv your man was out here dancing with Ninja Turtles,even when he started smoking ganja and growing locks he never rapped like Busta lol

i was thinking of "woo ahh got you all in check" which i would place alongside ice ice baby, informer and also "then i got high" by afroman.

 

[woops]

I can see I'm gonna get crucified here for flippantly casting the first stone.

this is about the 3rd time the first stone has been cast in the last couple of days, has all the carling got you messianic

There's actually a huge connection between Rhymes and Dean Blunt, cos Hype Williams directed a number of Busta videos...

:/ anyway to me that busta rhymes track is all about the restraint, compared to his energetic stuff it's a lot more menacing, as i said he's got a hundred different deliveries and here he pulls out another one, very quick and controlled

 

[luka]

listening to MC Breed now, its clear to see his influence on the more restrained menacing end of detroit rap (Babyface Ray,Allstar JR DEFINITLY Boldy James)

Just sounding completly unbothered by all things around them and not in that Jay Z way where they sound bored or above it all

can ypur next entry in this thread be 3 or 4 songs you love unconditionally?

 

[thirdform]

of course street rap as a genre generally sounds mor exubarent or whatever. Still unclear how this puts Busta in the same ballpark as Vanilla Ice, that mf can't even enunciate without his voice having that irritating high pitched inflection which makes him sound like a hillbilly nazi on too much acid, and nitrous oxide while we're at it. No poise, no intent within that moment, just trying to fling bars cos he can.

You're seriously cloth-eared mate.

 

[luka]

he is cloth eared but you cant reform him so no point browbeating him. what is your favourite year for hiphop third form you can only choose one.
mine is 1994 obviously.

 

[thirdform]

he is cloth eared but you cant reform him so no point browbeating him. what is your favourite year for hiphop third form you can only choose one.
mine is 1994 obviously.

1988.

 

[thirdform]

But yeah, 93-94 are close contenders also.

 

[woops]

And cloth capped

 

[thirdform]

Luke have you asked Barty what his favourite year of hh is?

 

[luka]

Luke have you asked Barty what his favourite year of hh is?

hes really depressed at the moment ive never known him so down but i will try and get an answer

 

[thirdform]

hes really depressed at the moment ive never known him so down but i will try and get an answer

oh. Chin up big man! If he ever needs some robo bumming mixes to send his brain into oblivion then he can always send us an email.